Doubtful UK vaccinate teens in Sept!

[3asAbird]

I think many discussions in here considering every other country vaccinating 12 to 15 year olds including India and Ireland that UK may change position on vaccinating teens when they have extra supplies.

But then saw this and all pfizer going as 3rd booster doses to over 50s and groups 1 to 10 i assume.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9849067/ALL-50s-clinically-vulnerable-offered-Pfizer-booster-shot.html
Also imagine that's quite lot resources ie vaccination centres, staff and volunteers to facilitate booster roll out.

Makes me think teens bottom of queue again.
I would even pay privately for my asthmatic 15 year old to have jab as shes year 11 gcses and my 12 year old year 7 both key years.
She wants to have it.

Kind of dreading school outbreaks in autumn winter and them freezing in their classrooms.
Ironically a packed public bus still wearing masks with open windows..
School no distancing. No masks. Poor ventilation , no isolating is the perfect condition for virus to spread and thrive.

Still baffles me how a double vaccinated adult has same status as unvaccinated 18 year old in terms risk assessing chances of spread we know kids not immune 10 to 19 was fast rising group.

How is it vitally importantly a 18 year old uni student gets the jab but not a 15 year old.
I would argue from attending uni you can distance better at uni and choose to socialise at lunch that you have greater control over your day.
We used have small tutor groups and large lecture halls.
We told every jab matters and increased overall population immunity.
Theres something like 3million secondary school pupils across whole of the UK.
I expect they still won't prioritise teaching staff and many 20 something teachers may not have had 2nd jab if they maintain 8 week gap.

I feel the government owe parents and children a choice after 2 academic years disrupted to have a year with less disruption and uncertainty.
Which will lead to parents missing work
Parents getting covid despite being double jabbed.
Kids missing large chunk school
Lots supply staff.

No mitigating measures and downplaying kids don't get that ill.
They strongly advise 15 year old asthmatic daughter get flu jab every year.

CV - should be offered to all 16+, so your 15 yo shouldn't have to wait much longer.

12-15 - it's certain CEV and household of severely immune compromised

www.gov.uk/government/news/jcvi-issues-advice-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people

I did wonder if they would open it up to all 16+ who want it (as they're essentially adult-sized) but for as long as the disease remains mild in DC, I don't think they will be opening it up further

As the SI rules are changing, the disruption to classrooms will be much less

Makes me think teens bottom of queue again
If they are its because statistically, collectively they're at the least risk of serious illness or death from covid.

I'm sure people would be up in arms if the death rate rose because we had prioritised younger healthier society over the elderly and CEV.

Do people saying that statistically and collectively the children are at the least risk really think about real possible effect of covid? More children gets ill, more children could face many unknown effects of covid, even though they didn't get really ill. I don't really get why some parents can be ok about the situation the children are in.

@illuyankas

Do people saying that statistically and collectively the children are at the least risk really think about real possible effect of covid? More children gets ill, more children could face many unknown effects of covid, even though they didn't get really ill. I don't really get why some parents can be ok about the situation the children are in.

Even if small amount they don't realise that small amount gets bigger if really high cases . The anxiety I felt in autumn winter with rising cases and June/ July was the worst so far in terms school outbreaks and covid infection rates.

1004 kids in the UK were admitted to UK hospitals with covid related issues.

I don't want end up home school again.
I don't want any of us to get covid.
Other than keeping them off school school will be where infections will be brought home which in autumn did leak into older age groups according to van tam. 1 day in jan school were safe and then next day they closes.

Not all younger school staff would if had 2 vaccines.
Feel sorry for school staff.

I don't want gcses cancelled.

Read Australia least trying prioritise year 12 their exam year.

Covid could massively effect a young person's gcse or a level results through absence and feeling unwell with long covid.

When you know there's solution that prevents this.
That other countries are doing.
Thats approved as safe by MHRA makes me so 😠 angry.
That we have the money and resource to do.

Kids do not need new technology emergency approved vaccines for covid usless they are CEV I dont see the problem here

In fairness, while I am of the opinion that ALL teens should be vaccinated asap, I do agree that university students should have priority- they're away from home, and mingling with far more (potentially unvaccinated people) than school kids are. Plus, of course, there's the tricky consent thing for schookids which doesn't apply to the over 18s.

Fingers crossed the rollout will apply to all 12+ sooner rather than later.

@Lauras315

Kids do not need new technology emergency approved vaccines for covid usless they are CEV I dont see the problem here

What do you think about this? How can you be so sure this won't happen to your child/children? neurosciencenews.com/covid-neurology-children-18933/

I agree totally with the OP, it is shameful that the government failed to secure enough vaccine to vaccine 12-17 year olds with their approved vaccine as well as enough vaccine for the inevitable boosters required, with a couple of caveats:

• all teachers will have had the chance of 2 vaccines by start of September, as everyone over 18 was offered their 1st vaccine more than 8 weeks before that. if individuals have not taken up their 1st or 2nd vaccine then they must be personally responsible for their own decision and actions

• the government cannot deny 15-17 year olds their approved vaccines and then make them self-isolate when double-vaccinated people no longer have to self-isolate after 16 August. The exemption for the double-vaccinated AND under-18s must continue otherwise there is a huge ethical issue in imposing restrictions on a group who have been denied an approved vaccine

• many sixth-formers will have been double-vaccinated by the start of September and must benefit from all exemptions that apply to other double-vaccinated people. Schools and sixth forms should not be allowed to treat them differently to other double-vaccinated people. Many areas were ahead on their vaccination schedules in June/July and many over 16s I know were offered their first vaccine then and will have had their second by September easily. Plus the many CV and CEV over 16s who received their 2 vaccines in the Spring

Not sure it’s the case that university students mix with many more people each day than secondary school children?

@JanFebAnyMonth

Not sure it’s the case that university students mix with many more people each day than secondary school children?

I agree its bizzare as gcse student age 15 does 9 to 10 gcses with 9-10 different teachers and different people in each class as some of core is academics sets and others is gcse options so some subjects have bigger sized classes than others.

A levels reduced down to 3 to 4 subjects and much smaller classes.
At degree I did combined business and legal with different modules so maybe 5 different lecturers .
We had choice where to eat at lunch or break we were hot herded into 1 canteen or sports hall as of is compulsory.
I had shared flat 5 in ffeshers year then private house share.
Socialising ie going to busy clubs or pubs entirely optional.
At uni I assume they can choose to wear masks and they are vaccinated.

How can the risk vary so much between a 18 year old at uni and 15 year old at secondary school?
How is the 18 year old at greater risk.

I agree op and suspected lack of pfizer as the reason no vax for children.
They had the opportunity to buy more when it was clear
in mar AZ shouldnt be used in under 60s
And that pfizer seems to work better at stopping symptoms

Also what % of the vaxxed deaths by each vax?
I agree the disruption has been too much and the onky way to stop that is for herd immunity by vax.
Kids pose the biggest risk as they are everywhere - supermarkets / public transport/restaurants and all unmasked.
I would like my parents to get a pfizer(ex shielded and 75+).
However we can't vidit them inside etc etc due to the dc. We had 8 cases in school over 2w in both dc classes. So according to the research thats 10% chance each of them caught it.
Im not sure the GP getting a pfizer each will stop my worrying...
Me and dp had AZ so we each have 40% chance of getting symptoms.

Anyway at any point someones kid could get cancer or anything else affecting immune system and then the risk of covid to them on top, we are really not treating the kids well.
We dont even know how quickly kids will get repeatedly reinfected as most places have had restrictions. Even 10d off when you have covid x2 a year will have a large effect on education. Plus missing out repeatedly on nativity or tests or sports day etc.
Then there is school trips especially abroad but even residentials. Quite a high chance a kid would test posted abroad and some or all of the group have to stay.

@HSHorror

I agree op and suspected lack of pfizer as the reason no vax for children. They had the opportunity to buy more when it was clear in mar AZ shouldnt be used in under 60s And that pfizer seems to work better at stopping symptoms

Also what % of the vaxxed deaths by each vax?
I agree the disruption has been too much and the onky way to stop that is for herd immunity by vax.
Kids pose the biggest risk as they are everywhere - supermarkets / public transport/restaurants and all unmasked.
I would like my parents to get a pfizer(ex shielded and 75+).
However we can't vidit them inside etc etc due to the dc. We had 8 cases in school over 2w in both dc classes. So according to the research thats 10% chance each of them caught it.
Im not sure the GP getting a pfizer each will stop my worrying...
Me and dp had AZ so we each have 40% chance of getting symptoms.

Anyway at any point someones kid could get cancer or anything else affecting immune system and then the risk of covid to them on top, we are really not treating the kids well.
We dont even know how quickly kids will get repeatedly reinfected as most places have had restrictions. Even 10d off when you have covid x2 a year will have a large effect on education. Plus missing out repeatedly on nativity or tests or sports day etc.
Then there is school trips especially abroad but even residentials. Quite a high chance a kid would test posted abroad and some or all of the group have to stay.

My 3 older age school kids haven't seen thier nan since last August. They briefly saw grampy my dad 10mins in doorstep xmas day and 1 hour on garden with mask on last August.

Both my parents have underlying health condition my dads much worse than my mum as he's older and has some immune related issues.
Both my mums husband and dads Partner are all 55 plus and all 4 have had astrazeneca.

My kids attend 3 different school and last term all 3 school had multiple cases as 2/3 had to self isolate as close contact.
So think this week we stay in and do lft before we go visit them this summer as feels too risky when they go back to school.
Unsure we see them at xmas which is sad.
Basically it's ruining relationship with kids and grandparents.

Also many parents use grandparents as childcare so sept October when 1st dose is waking they will them have contacts with lots of infected kids.

@Lauras315

Kids do not need new technology emergency approved vaccines for covid usless they are CEV I dont see the problem here

They still don't have access to vaccines right now even if immunosuppressed.

The vulnerable ones won't be fully vaccinated when schools go back.

All that I have heard and read so far suggests to me that it is only under 18s who are CEV or those who live with someone who is CEV who will be vaccinated in the UK.

or those who live with someone who is CEV who will be vaccinated in the UK

Just the family of those who are considered cev because of their compromised immune system.

I wonder how many would accept AZ as the boosters instead of Pfizer and let the younger ones have it instead? Personally aged 36 had 2 AZ would be quite happy to have a 3rd but its now deemed inferior to the Pfizer/moderna.

We can only obtain vaccine at the same rate as it can be made? Theres many other countries also ordering Pfizer too, plus we have a larger population than most of our EU counterparts so would need more anyway. My personal opinion is, if AZ hadn't been advised against for the under 40s then most adults would have had that and Pfizer we had secured could have been prioritised for the u18s. There really isn't an a never ending tap of Pfizer that some people think we have.

The stupidly does my head in.
I am annoyed with government and annoyed with media.
Scotland has follow same rules of who gets vaccinated as England as we acting as a united kingdom..
Scotland school have always gone back earlier in August.
We know delta needs 2 doses then upto 2 weeks to take affect.
So vulnerable kids and those within vulnerable families won't be double vaxxed in time and there won't be any bubbles or isolating under 18s as close contacts.
So its too late its simply a soundbite policy announced and acted upon too late to pacify the general public and make us think all the vulnerable have had chance to be double vaccinated.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-58042470.amp

When it comes to vaccinating children I feel we need to consider both their risk and the risk posed by their spreading it to others. A teaching career will become a risky occupation. I hope the vaccination programs being run in other countries are successful and that the UK follows suit.

@Wellbythebloodyhell

I wonder how many would accept AZ as the boosters instead of Pfizer and let the younger ones have it instead? Personally aged 36 had 2 AZ would be quite happy to have a 3rd but its now deemed inferior to the Pfizer/moderna. We can only obtain vaccine at the same rate as it can be made? Theres many other countries also ordering Pfizer too, plus we have a larger population than most of our EU counterparts so would need more anyway. My personal opinion is, if AZ hadn't been advised against for the under 40s then most adults would have had that and Pfizer we had secured could have been prioritised for the u18s. There really isn't an a never ending tap of Pfizer that some people think we have.

I thought you couldn’t have an AZ booster if you had it for your initial vaccine?

But aren’t they still going to be freezing with windows open, wearing masks etc? I am in Ireland. I have a DS13. I don’t for one minute think that if every single teenager was vaccinated they wouldn’t still have to have all the windows open and have the poor kids wearing masks all day long.

I wish I lived in the UK where the Government don’t feel the need for teenagers (who are not CEV) to have the vaccine. I’m not against it, am double jabbed myself but would rather not have to make this decision with my child to get it or not. So far he is not getting it (his choice) but I know the way things are going in this country it will either become mandatory or they will exclude unvaccinated children from society.

Not vaccinating minors will mean a teaching career is hazardous so it will become an unpopular choice, clinically vulnerable chidren will loose out on their education and need benefits possibly for life, the circulating covid in minors will leak into older age groups causing hospital backlogs to worsen and add to the million with long covid. Remember a sickly workforce damages the economy and we will not be able to compete with countries who are jabbing minors.

All in all we will have less money for the things we hold dear eg health care and national security. Business will struggle as older people will restrict movements so spend less. The side effects are rare read the back of any off the shelf tablet or medicine.

Not vaccinating secondary age kids is a very short term approach and will make the autumn much more hazardous than it needs to be. It’s unfair to the kids who will miss out on more school if they catch it. It’s unfair to the teachers especially the as even double vaccinated can get it. And it’s unfair to the parents (and the economy) if they have to take more time off work.

The children do not need to be vaccinated at all. Why are you so bothered about them if you are double jabbed? Surely you are protected?

The risk is minimal for kids re covid. Look up the side effects of the injection on children. This is still a very new drug that has been passed for emergency use.

Unfair for parents to take time off work???!!

The kids have been mostly fine throughout the pandemic health wise, considering routine appointments for other issues have been abandoned. Why would they be vaccinated? For the economy? So parents can go to work?! No thank you.

Scotland has follow same rules of who gets vaccinated as England as we acting as a united kingdom..
Scotland school have always gone back earlier in August

Scottish kids are going back with social distancing and masks still in place, at least high schools are. Bit pointless when thousands can gather indoor unmasked elsewhere but there you go.

But yes agree with pp, children don't need vaccinated unless they're vulnerable. We do not have enough safety data to justify vaccinating them since most are very low risk.