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Covid can spread just as easily with the vaccine?

37 replies

Fairunibutterfly · 30/07/2021 23:02

So I really don’t want to start vax/anti-vax war thread here but read this and don’t know what to make of it.

I was very hesitant taking my first jab due to being unsure of long term effects given that in my age range and having no underlying health conditions I had a very low risk of serious Covid implications for hospitalisation or death.

The vax has created a real division but I felt if I didn’t have it, I’d be labelled stupid and selfish largely at work (I work in a large organisation) so felt this weird societal pressure to have it and haven’t felt entirely comfortable since. I’m soon due my second and even more conflicted since one part says I’ve had my first so should just have second to get my “Covid passport” which looks like it’s coming but at the same time getting deeply concerned with how much the Govt are pushing this jab.

Anyway, all aside, one thing I’ve read until now is that the jab can reduce risk of serious illness and also reduce transmission and that’s why I read on here that people with low risk and kids may get the jab (to reduce transmission) and save those at high risk.

I just read the article below. It’s a live feed so I’ve copied the relevant section. This is implying that those double vaccinated can just as easily spread Covid(4th paragraph). Am I reading that right? If so, what does it do for the low risk people and why are the Govt pushing so much? I think it talks about draft papers so maybe this hasn’t hit the majority of the public yet and maybe yet to be verified?

www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/jul/30/coronavirus-live-news-philippines-locks-down-13-million-in-manila-japan-to-expand-state-of-emergency?page=with:block-6104191d8f089093df86f326#block-6104191d8f089093df86f326

“Delta variant of Covid not more deadly than original strains, says WHO

Higher rates of mortality have not been recorded from the Delta variant, said Maria van Kerkhove, the World Health Organization technical lead on Covid-19, suggesting that while it may be more transmissible this does not necessarily equate to a greater death risk.

She said that the Delta variant is about 50% more transmissible than ancestral strains of Sars-CoV-2, that first emerged in China in late 2019. A few countries have reported increased hospitalisation rates but higher rates of mortality have not been recorded from the Delta variant, she said.

However, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention documents obtained by the Washington Post today cite studies from Canada, Singapore and Scotland showing that the Delta variant may pose a greater risk for the worst health outcomes than the Alpha variant first detected in the UK.

The paper cites “a combination of recently obtained, still-unpublished data from outbreak investigations and outside studies showing that vaccinated individuals infected with Delta may be able to transmit the virus as easily as those who are unvaccinated. Vaccinated people infected with Delta have measurable viral loads similar to those who are unvaccinated and infected with the variant.”

WHO’s top emergency expert Mike Ryan also said that WHO-approved vaccines remain effective against the disease, despite growing real-world evidence of their waning efficacy.

“The vaccines currently approved by the WHO all provide significant protection against severe disease and hospitalisation,” he said. “We are fighting the same virus but a virus that has become faster and better adapted to transmitting amongst us humans, that’s the change.”

The CDC documents show that since January, people who got infected after vaccination make up an increasing portion of hospitalisations and in-hospital deaths among Covid-19 patients, the Associated Press reports.

Van Kerkhove added that Covid-19 variants are not targeting children in the UK“

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MistressoftheDarkSide · 30/07/2021 23:29

Just been reading about this in the guardian also....... I have no idea wtf to think any more tbh...... sorry I have nothing more constructive to add..... but watching the numbers go down here offers a sliver of hope I suppose.....

readytosell · 30/07/2021 23:35

Already being debunked. Take a look at the excellent Nate Silver on Twitter.

Fairunibutterfly · 30/07/2021 23:39

Yes, case numbers are going down by a lot and I really didn’t get that either as it was just a sudden drop but that is a positive.

Thanks for replying. I feel the same too. Just don’t know what’s right and what to think anymore.

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Fairunibutterfly · 30/07/2021 23:41

Thanks readytosell. I’ll take a look at his thread. The paper was from the CDC which is why it seemed credible to me.

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mibbelucieachwell · 30/07/2021 23:43

This paper has been heavily criticised. Look up the virologist 'chise' @ sailorooscout, a virologist who worked on the Moderna vaccine for reassurance. She is furious that the CDC is using old and disputed data.

Dustyboots · 30/07/2021 23:55

At the moment these reports and what all the various scientists say - they're all words and interpretation. No one knows anything and won't for a very long time.

I'm not vaccinated. I'm very nearly going to be. Suffer from quite strong health/medical anxiety - plus the pressure/coercion/bullying etc from government is putting me right off. It's annoying. I'm so ready to be vaccinated but so full of distrust and the distrust (fuelled by dishonesty and bullying) is winning. But that's another subject and story.

Whathefisgoingon · 31/07/2021 06:41

Yes, we can still transmit Delta if we have covid - but the vaccines are still something ridiculous like 85% effective at preventing symptomatic diseases with Delta so you can’t spread it if you haven’t got it.

Fairunibutterfly · 31/07/2021 11:31

So you can spread it just as much if you have it but you’re less likely to catch it if vaccinated? That makes sense. Is the 85% the % of getting Covid when vaccinated? If so surely we must be in a good position by now but who knows.

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Fairunibutterfly · 31/07/2021 11:37

Dustyboots, I can see where you’re coming from. There is so much information either way and in the end it sent my head in a spin so I got the vaccine.

I’ll most likely get my second since I’ve already had one and think I may as well have the other to get my passport.

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hamstersarse · 31/07/2021 11:38

I don't see how vaccine passports are of any use with all of this.

What is the actual point of a vaccine passport?

LizzieMacQueen · 31/07/2021 11:43

Isn't the point of vaccines to reduce likelihood of being hospitalised if you do catch it. I.e. the illness is less severe.

But you're right. Asymptomatic cases will still pass it on. Hence I've taken the view I'll LFT before I meet up with anyone considered vulnerable. I'm double vaxxed.

EffOrf · 31/07/2021 11:46

Vaccine passports are mainly used as coercion to get people to take the vaccine, first it was holidays but that didn't work as you still have to jump through hoops to go even if vaccinated, now it's nightclubs, who knows what they will come out with next

TeddyBearsPicnic89 · 31/07/2021 11:49

@Whathefisgoingon sorry if this is a silly question, but can you not transmit covid even if you are not showing symptoms. I though they had debunked the idea that asymptomatic people couldn't be carriers and that's why there was the whole "don't kill granny" narrative from the government with regards to asymptomatic kids passing it on.

bumbleymummy · 31/07/2021 11:50

@hamstersarse

I don't see how vaccine passports are of any use with all of this.

What is the actual point of a vaccine passport?

There isn’t one. Well, nothing to do with preventing spread anyway.
Dogoodfeelgood · 31/07/2021 11:50

I’m single jabbed and my DH is double jabbed and we caught covid after very close contact with a case (sharing drinks etc). He has no symptoms practically and I am quite ill and bedridden. Absolutely get your second vaccine as yes you might still catch it but god it would be nice to be positive but not unable to even make the bed without feeling woozy. I was very blasé about Covid but got jabbed anyway and WISH I’d pushed to get my second jab as fast as possible. Really the vaccine impact on you will be 0.0000001% of the impact of catching delta variant. Please get your second jab and try not to worry! X

Dogoodfeelgood · 31/07/2021 11:54

It doesn’t matter if we are still able to pass it around if vaxxed as the point of the vax is to lower hospitalisations so a vax passport absolutely makes sense in that it encourages as many people to be fully vaxxed as possible? Seems completely logical to me. The alternative being no one gets vaccinated and hospitals are overwhelmed…

Fairunibutterfly · 31/07/2021 11:54

Yeah, I just saw the thread on boosters and thought what happens to the Covid passport with boosters? Do they become invalid if you don’t have boosters?

Given the JCVI puts my age group at low risk of death and hospitalisation I don’t know if I want boosters every 6months.

What happens if you have the second dose after 12wks? I have no desire to get into nightclubs, concerts or Premier League matches anytime soon so wonder whether to wait things out a bit. It seemed like the passports would extend to other areas that may impact my life a little while ago.

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Fairunibutterfly · 31/07/2021 11:59

Thanks for sharing dogoodfeelgood. I posted before seeing your comment.

My problem is I start reading too much on either side then get my head in a spin. My main worry was about any potential long term conditions. Thankfully with the first vaccine I had nothing more than a sore arm.

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Sunshinegirl82 · 31/07/2021 11:59

@hamstersarse

I don't see how vaccine passports are of any use with all of this.

What is the actual point of a vaccine passport?

The point is to reduce the likelihood of spread in larger groups and reduce the number of superspreader events.

Vaccinations aren't a magic bubble that eliminate all covid but if you put 100 fully vaccinated people in a room with someone that has covid and 100 unvaccinated people in a room with someone that has covid far more people in the unvaccinated room will contract covid than in the vaccinated room.

If you multiply that effect up across lots of settings the cumulative impact is to put downward pressure on case numbers.

Tightsonatrain · 31/07/2021 12:23

Irresponsible article that conveniently ignores that on average vaccines have ~88% efficacy

So yes in those ~22% of people who actually get COVID it is possible to still transmit the virus, but still hugely better than in 100% of vaccinated.

Also important to point out the paper doesn't actually say there is no difference in viral load or transmission in those vaccinated compared to unvaccinated. It is reduced, but due to the wide confidence intervals (unsurprising given the study is underpowered), the difference does not reach the threshold of statistical significance that they are using.

Hasn't stopped the anti-vaxxers on here and everywhere else jumping on it to be used a another reason people shouldn't be vaccinated though Hmm

Tightsonatrain · 31/07/2021 12:26

There isn’t one. Well, nothing to do with preventing spread anyway.

nope not true in the slightest at @bumbleymummy, see post above

Vaccines significantly reduce spread.

bumbleymummy · 31/07/2021 12:43

The point is to reduce the likelihood of spread in larger groups and reduce the number of superspreader events.

Do you know what would reduce the likelihood more? Testing everyone before the event. Rather than exempting people from testing just because they’ve had a vaccine that doesn’t guarantee that they can’t contract and spread the virus.

bluetongue · 31/07/2021 12:45

I don’t know who to believe anymore. It sounds like the CDC are using this to bring back mask mandates in the US for vaccinated people if numbers are high.

I’m feeling a bit low about it all at the moment. Just when things seem more hopeful with this virus something comes along to shatter my hope,

While I’m not terrified of the virus I just hope we’ll still go back to something resembling the pre Covid world one day.