Spike-antibody waning after second dose of BNT162b2 or ChAdOx1

[DGRossetti]

Total antibody levels start declining six weeks after complete vaccination with Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines - and can reduce significantly by more than 50% over 10 weeks, according to a new study published in The Lancet journal.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01642-1/fulltext

Biologically this is completely normal.

Which is why there is widespread talk of when boosters will be delivered, no?

Yes isn’t that why we’ll need boosters?

And then the T cells kick in, what’s your point?

Data coming out of Israel is seeming to show that the efficacy of the vaccine might wear off relatively quickly and really the best way to get long-term immunity is by actually having the virus. I can't find it now but I saw a study where people who have had the vaccine are 7x more likely to get it than those who have natural immunity

This article summarises what Israel are saying www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html

@Aposterhasnoname

And then the T cells kick in, what’s your point?

It seems it is unclear as to whether the vaccines enable that to happen

Having the virus naturally certainly does, but whether the vaccine does is a different question.

[quote hamstersarse]Data coming out of Israel is seeming to show that the efficacy of the vaccine might wear off relatively quickly and really the best way to get long-term immunity is by actually having the virus. I can't find it now but I saw a study where people who have had the vaccine are 7x more likely to get it than those who have natural immunity

This article summarises what Israel are saying www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html[/quote]
What does "it" refer to? "7x more likely to get it"

It seems it is unclear as to whether the vaccines enable that to happen
They do
twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1416026477439619072

There is also reason to think immunity waniny in Israel may be related to dosing intervals and the UK policy of 8/12 weeks strengthens immunity.

It seems it is unclear as to whether the vaccines enable that to happen

Why would that be the case, the whole point of vaccines is to prime your body to respond. T cells are a key part of that.

[quote hamstersarse]Data coming out of Israel is seeming to show that the efficacy of the vaccine might wear off relatively quickly and really the best way to get long-term immunity is by actually having the virus. I can't find it now but I saw a study where people who have had the vaccine are 7x more likely to get it than those who have natural immunity

This article summarises what Israel are saying www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html[/quote]
They think they got their maths wrong and its not as much of an issue as first thought...

mobile.twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059124700700677

What does "it" refer to? "7x more likely to get it"

gosh, yes, i wonder what she means.
Wonder if she means chicken pox.
maybe (and this is a long shot) she means the virus that this whole board is about?
what do you think?

@thenakedmolerat

What does "it" refer to? "7x more likely to get it"

gosh, yes, i wonder what she means.
Wonder if she means chicken pox.
maybe (and this is a long shot) she means the virus that this whole board is about?
what do you think?

Well, as all the fact check websites have debunked the 7x more likely to catch Covid (as the claim was taken completely out of context by the anti vax movement) I wondered if it was something else which might vaguely be based in fact.

Some scientists think Israel's population immunity is waning because they did only a 3 week gap between boosters. In the UK people vaccinated in January still have been shown to have the 88% protection.

Well, as all the fact check websites have debunked the 7x more likely to catch Covid (as the claim was taken completely out of context by the anti vax movement) I wondered if it was something else which might vaguely be based in fact
ah, right. so you were just being arsey for no reason?
fair enough

No, I genuinely couldn't work out what the pronoun "it" referred to. Because the last preceding noun wasn't "Covid" or "the virus" but "study".
I was interested to see the study referenced, that's all. Bordois has confirmed however that the original hypothesis had been miscalculated.

A quick AS however, shows that you calling me arsey is a bit pots and kettles.

A quick AS however, shows that you calling me arsey is a bit pots and kettles
that's why I said fair enough to you being arsey. I'm never hypocritical :-)

Also, Israel’s ‘waining’ vaccine is related to its effectiveness in preventing you catching & transmitting it. It’s still 90% effective in preventing serious illness & hospitalisation. So a complete non-story. But it’ll feed the anti-vaxxers.

I was in hospital yesterday with my very poorly toddler. We were triage into the covid zone as she had a fever & a cough. A young 28 year old man came in on day 10 of covid. Very low oxygen. Refused the vaccine as he thought ‘it wasn’t necessary & would harm him’.. he spent the entire hour in triage buzzing the nurses every 5 minutes & asking if he was going to die and was his oxygen ok. He look terrified. He was fine, the oxygen bounced him back up to 96%. The nurses somewhat sarcastically asked if he’d maybe now get his vaccine & he asked her to help him book it (which she did). 🙄🙄🙄

Get your vaccine idiots.

Not everything is about antibodies. T cells and memory B cells are what you need to have long term immunity (and the T cells are less affected by new variants). The body doesn't keep on making antibodies unless it needs to, as that would be energetically demanding (think of all the illnesses you've had!). So instead it stores the instructions in the memory cells and that means antibodies can be manufactured quickly if there's a threat again.

Check out Prof Shane Crotty's research into T cells following vaccination, he has a lot of research out now, Google Scholar is your friend.

@Bobholll

Also, Israel’s ‘waining’ vaccine is related to its effectiveness in preventing you catching & transmitting it. It’s still 90% effective in preventing serious illness & hospitalisation. So a complete non-story. But it’ll feed the anti-vaxxers.

I was in hospital yesterday with my very poorly toddler. We were triage into the covid zone as she had a fever & a cough. A young 28 year old man came in on day 10 of covid. Very low oxygen. Refused the vaccine as he thought ‘it wasn’t necessary & would harm him’.. he spent the entire hour in triage buzzing the nurses every 5 minutes & asking if he was going to die and was his oxygen ok. He look terrified. He was fine, the oxygen bounced him back up to 96%. The nurses somewhat sarcastically asked if he’d maybe now get his vaccine & he asked her to help him book it (which she did). 🙄🙄🙄

Get your vaccine idiots.

Out of curiosity how do you know so much personal info about him?

Within the paper, where the authors discuss the implication of findings:

There is, however, accumulating evidence suggesting the importance of T-cell-mediated immunity, particularly in individuals with weak or absent antibody responses,12 so it is possible that T-cell responses compensate to some extent as antibody responses wane.

Is perhaps “best” (bearing in mind the reality of the situation we are in and working with parameters of that reality) a mass vax programme to largely prevent hospitalisation and death, and then a much more transmissible virus variant infecting the vaccinated, meaning they also get the immunity you get from being infected? Or does it not work that way?

@AmyVindaloo

Natural immunity is best.

But that's not being recognised. It's vaccine or nothing.

Who is saying that?

@AmyVindaloo

Natural immunity is best.

But that's not being recognised. It's vaccine or nothing.

Why do you think natural immunity is best @AmyVindaloo?

There are good reasons why literally all public health bodies now state getting towards herd immunity via natural infection is a very very bad idea.