Caring about health: "good"! Caring about the economy: "evil, selfish and greedy"!

[Warhertisuff]

I'm fed up of people, generally liberal types whose situation means they aren't especially impacted from any economic impact of lockdown and restrictions saying stuff like "Boris is only opening up the country as he only really cares about the economy so he and his fat cats can get richer", as though the impact of restrictions on society doesn't impact directly onto the economic welfare of millions!

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Boris, but this sanctimonious drivel winds me up.

at 'sanctimonious liberal types', talk about deliberately starting a fight.

My family has been negatively financially impacted by lockdown.

Healthy population is an important foundation stone of the economy, I'm sick of thickos who can't see it isn't either/or, UK government has fucked up both in terms of health AND the economy.

Not sure how high numbers of people off work with long covid will help the economy, but thinking isn't Johnson's strong suit.

@lannistunut

at 'sanctimonious liberal types', talk about deliberately starting a fight.

My family has been negatively financially impacted by lockdown.

Healthy population is an important foundation stone of the economy, I'm sick of thickos who can't see it isn't either/or, UK government has fucked up both in terms of health AND the economy.

Not sure how high numbers of people off work with long covid will help the economy, but thinking isn't Johnson's strong suit.

I think you're missing my point... I agree health and economy go hand-in-hand. My gripe is with those who believe that caring about the economy is venal and greedy, and that it is an "either/or" matter.

I'm sorry but anyone who uses 'liberal' the way you did is picking a fight.

Being liberal is good. The opposite is illiberal, which means narrow-minded and bigoted.

"thinking the two are independent of each other" = stupid

Yep. If you care at all about your own situation you're a selfish evil human being. "It's not all about you. In case you haven't noticed, there's a GLOBAL pandemic on".
But these same people will happily demand endless sacrifices from others.

I know the time you mean. It's the better off, left-of-centre virtue signallers. On twitter they are easily identified by a blue heart. They have been happy to outsource their risk to the working-classes througout the pandemic. They clearly consider themselves Very Precious Indeed and any miniscule risk to them is a massive affront and outrage.

*type

Yes, the economy affects health as well!

@MaxNormal

That's a bitter post. I hope you feel happier soon.

Btw, I'm pretty skint, and have had bad financial impacts from covid, and am pretty bog-standard ordinary, and haven't outsourced any risk, and I think unlocking will harm the working classes most.

They are the ones who will get sick at work (as will my DH).

I agree with you OP , and I feel it comes from ignorance, poor education or not being in possession on the basic facts .
All the sentimentality over the nhs , but they fail to grip that the money for this has to come from somewhere.
Once poverty drops below a certain level them crime will rise uncontrollably with wide spread strikes and riots etc. That's the economy- not rich people smoking cigars in the ritz or whatever they seem to think it is !

@lannistunut bitter doesn't even begin to cover it.

[quote lannistunut]@MaxNormal

That's a bitter post. I hope you feel happier soon.

Btw, I'm pretty skint, and have had bad financial impacts from covid, and am pretty bog-standard ordinary, and haven't outsourced any risk, and I think unlocking will harm the working classes most.

They are the ones who will get sick at work (as will my DH).[/quote]
I'm not bothered about getting sick at work (factory worker). Covid isn't likely to do me much harm. Losing my job would have a far worse impact.

The basic premise doesn’t make sense though, it’s not one or the other. Unlocking and “prioritising the economy” doesn’t magically make the pandemic go away.

It results in exactly what we’re seeing at the moment, with swathes of people having to go off sick and “the economy” struggling with (let’s face it) mainly minimum wage workers having to be off with very little financial support - at least with proper lockdown they had furlough to fall back on.

@Dontforgetyourbrolly

I agree with you OP , and I feel it comes from ignorance, poor education or not being in possession on the basic facts . All the sentimentality over the nhs , but they fail to grip that the money for this has to come from somewhere. Once poverty drops below a certain level them crime will rise uncontrollably with wide spread strikes and riots etc. That's the economy- not rich people smoking cigars in the ritz or whatever they seem to think it is !

and if we manage the pandemic badly (as it is clearly our Government's instinct to do) then we will also have a poor economy.

So we need a wise balance, caution and restraint...

How will getting long covid help a retail worker? Us bleeding heart liberals are worried about them.

Anyway, the government is off the hook when we are scrapping amongst ourselves, and this thread has done what was intended - start a phoney culture war fight.

Fuck off culture warriors!

Yes and some posts illustrating what you are taking about OP.

@Dyrne

The basic premise doesn’t make sense though, it’s not one or the other. Unlocking and “prioritising the economy” doesn’t magically make the pandemic go away.

It results in exactly what we’re seeing at the moment, with swathes of people having to go off sick and “the economy” struggling with (let’s face it) mainly minimum wage workers having to be off with very little financial support - at least with proper lockdown they had furlough to fall back on.

yeah, but... swathes of people are not having to go off sick because they are ill or incapable of working but because they got pinged...

@lannistunut

I'm sorry but anyone who uses 'liberal' the way you did is picking a fight.

Being liberal is good. The opposite is illiberal, which means narrow-minded and bigoted.

"Liberal" is not synonymous with "good", any more than being "conservative" is synonymous with "bad". Equating your particular political standpoint with "goodness" is almost the dictionary definition of sanctimonious!

By "political", I actually meant "philosophical".

@Warhertisuff it seems you don't understand the words you are using, you are using 'liberal' as a political insult, it is not.

Liberalism has been a force for good for centuries.

actually liberal means a load of different & incompatible things

@Dyrne

The basic premise doesn’t make sense though, it’s not one or the other. Unlocking and “prioritising the economy” doesn’t magically make the pandemic go away.

It results in exactly what we’re seeing at the moment, with swathes of people having to go off sick and “the economy” struggling with (let’s face it) mainly minimum wage workers having to be off with very little financial support - at least with proper lockdown they had furlough to fall back on.

That's my point... It doesn't make sense. But some people, and yes it is generally progressive liberals, who seem to love to make this false dichotomy.

I do not think philosophical conservatism is bad and have not said so.

I don't believe that being liberal has much to do with the current mainstream left-wing thinking anyway. I find a lot of it quite authoritarian, and being liberal tends now to be decried as libertarian which is of course akin to murder. Nice strong state control and biosecurity is more the order of the day.
The border rhetoric would not look out of place on a Britain First pamphlet.

Ed Davey of the Lib Dems appears to have found his liberal instincts with regards to covid passes at least, but that's one of the few glimmers I've seen.

Caring about the economy and Boris lining his own pockets are two entirely separate things. The things Boris does to line his own pockets, do not help our economy in any way.

On the other hand, health and the economy are directly linked. The more people who become unwell and are unable to work, the more the economy tanks.