A bonkers situation - or is it? Please sense-check me

[CoronavirusDilemma]

Name-changed so there won't be a posting history, but I've been here for many years.

My partner and I live outside London with one DC. My DP's son - my lovely DSS - is in London with his mother, step-father, and two half-brothers.

Last week, one of DSS's half-brothers tested positive with Covid. Today is their last day of quarantine. His mother and step-father are refusing to do any exit tests for any of them - neither lateral flow nor PCR. They have been clear that they want DSS's brothers to have their last day at school today (they have gone without LFTs), and they want to be able to travel to their holiday home as soon as term ends.

DSS wants to come up and stay with us today, and this has thrown us into a dilemma. We think, given the Delta variant, that it is more than likely that at least one other family member in DSS's family will have Covid, even if asymptomatically. We have asked them all to take LFTs to help DSS come up here, and they are refusing. They have refused to take DSS to do a walk-in PCR, and so he has had to order one online - but we feel there's little point in his taking it if the virus is still active in the family.

We understand DSS's family is working within the letter of the guidelines, but we don't believe it's in the spirit. DP and I have underlying autoimmune and lung issues, and would rather not be exposed if we can help it - and in this case there is a known quantity in the equation. DSS will also be taking a bus and a train to visit us, which widens the possible sphere of impact if he's a carrier.

My sense is to ask him to hold off for a week and take a PCR then - by which time odds are that if he is going to get Covid, he will have had it. Then, if the test is negative, he can come up.

Are we being overly cautious? I am mindful of the fact that people act differently, and we wouldn't dream of going out into the world if one of us had Covid without all of us having a PCR - but we are not everyone. So I thought I'd put it to the MN jury to get your thoughts :)

They’ve all done the full self isolation period, and no other members of the household have developed symptoms? If that’s the case then they’ve done exactly what I would do - is that not right?

I would put it off for a while but this thing could just keep happening if he is part of a big family.

You could always say that you were isolating yourself and need to postpone his visit.

Sorry it’s really hard on everyone.

They say not to retest for 90 days post a positive?

@Wanttocry

They’ve all done the full self isolation period, and no other members of the household have developed symptoms? If that’s the case then they’ve done exactly what I would do - is that not right?

Yes, as I wrote, it's within the letter of the guidelines, but we feel not the spirit.

If you are worried, could he do a LFT as soon as he arrives? How old is he? You can't move for LFT both in our house and they give boxes away on the street in our area. Could he get to a pharmacy??

@Honeydukesmum

They say not to retest for 90 days post a positive?

Okay, that makes sense, but the other four members could test.

I would explain about your being more vulnerable and ask to wait another week.

@derekthe1adyhamster

If you are worried, could he do a LFT as soon as he arrives? How old is he? You can't move for LFT both in our house and they give boxes away on the street in our area. Could he get to a pharmacy??

Unfortunately, the LFT false negative rate is as high as 50%, which isn't good enough for us given that is as useful as not taking a test at all.

@3luckystars

I would put it off for a while but this thing could just keep happening if he is part of a big family.

You could always say that you were isolating yourself and need to postpone his visit.

Sorry it’s really hard on everyone.

Thank you. It's so difficult. I'm not angry with anyone, just frustrated at the situation.

@User5827372728

I would explain about your being more vulnerable and ask to wait another week.

Yes, that's my inclination, thank you.

I don’t think DSS should have to do a covid test to visit their own parent when they’ve finished isolation, and I don’t think you should be putting those barriers in the way either. In under a months time the child wouldn’t have to isolate at all. I understand being cautious but you’ve asked, they’ve said no, i personally would accept it and move on.

@JaffaRaf

I don’t think DSS should have to do a covid test to visit their own parent when they’ve finished isolation, and I don’t think you should be putting those barriers in the way either. In under a months time the child wouldn’t have to isolate at all. I understand being cautious but you’ve asked, they’ve said no, i personally would accept it and move on.

Fair enough, and a totally valid point of view which I know many share. We don't, though, because of our underlying conditions.

Depends how old DSS is - I'm assuming not a small child. Given that you have an increased risk I think it's only fair that he tests and/or delays his visit. I have a friend who lives with a family member who is at greater risk due to cancer treatment. We all routinely test before meeting up with her (even outdoors) even without there being a positive case in our house. FWIW, my DN tested positive. Whole family isolated for 10 days. 2 days later DB & DSIL started with symptoms and had a positive PCR test. They hadn't seen anyone other than their household and DN had been in his room for 10 days and wore a mask if he came out to use the bathroom.

we wouldn't dream of going out into the world if one of us had Covid without all of us having a PCR

I'm trying to figure out the practicalities of that.
A has confirmed covid.
B & C & D never have qualifying symptoms.
You have to lie to the booking system & say B/C/D have qualifying symptoms, to go get PCR. When would you do this? Because the incubation period is up to 10 days, and I guess infection can transmit at any time up to 10 days post-diagnosis, so the timeline goes:

Day 0: A gets symptoms, goes for test. A-B-C-D all isolate.
Day 1: A gets result, confirmed covid
Day 10 or 11: A is released from quarantine, but not B-C-D
Day 20: B-C-D stay in quarantine, never had symptoms, lie to say they had symptoms & get tested.
Day 21: B-C-D get negative result, so now they finally can be released, 3 weeks after A had positive.

Alt: Day21: B does test positive, so now C & D go back to Day 0 point in time time line, and continue in quarantine & wait until day 20 to know they have safely not ever tested positive by PCR.

Repeat for C or D if D or C tests positive on Day 40.
It's a pretty gruesome regime. Not many would be so stringent.

@bigbluebus

Depends how old DSS is - I'm assuming not a small child. Given that you have an increased risk I think it's only fair that he tests and/or delays his visit. I have a friend who lives with a family member who is at greater risk due to cancer treatment. We all routinely test before meeting up with her (even outdoors) even without there being a positive case in our house. FWIW, my DN tested positive. Whole family isolated for 10 days. 2 days later DB & DSIL started with symptoms and had a positive PCR test. They hadn't seen anyone other than their household and DN had been in his room for 10 days and wore a mask if he came out to use the bathroom.

Thank you for this - yes, this what we feel will be possible, if not probable.

DSS is 17 and, while upset and frustrated, understands.

@ragged

we wouldn't dream of going out into the world if one of us had Covid without all of us having a PCR

I'm trying to figure out the practicalities of that.
A has confirmed covid.
B & C & D never have qualifying symptoms.
You have to lie to the booking system & say B/C/D have qualifying symptoms, to go get PCR. When would you do this? Because the incubation period is up to 10 days, and I guess infection can transmit at any time up to 10 days post-diagnosis, so the timeline goes:

Day 0: A gets symptoms, goes for test. A-B-C-D all isolate.
Day 1: A gets result, confirmed covid
Day 10 or 11: A is released from quarantine, but not B-C-D
Day 20: B-C-D stay in quarantine, never had symptoms, lie to say they had symptoms & get tested.
Day 21: B-C-D get negative result, so now they finally can be released, 3 weeks after A had positive.

Alt: Day21: B does test positive, so now C & D go back to Day 0 point in time time line, and continue in quarantine & wait until day 20 to know they have safely not ever tested positive by PCR.

Repeat for C or D if D or C tests positive on Day 40.
It's a pretty gruesome regime. Not many would be so stringent.

We're pretty stringent.

All family members are eligible for a single PCR test when one family member has Covid. I've read the guidelines thoroughly. (Hence: stringent :) )

We're stringent because of our underlying conditions, but also because we feel a certain responsibility to those DSS will be sharing space with on his trip here, which takes about 1.5 hours.

Sorry I don't see a problem if they've followed the rules. And they've finished the isolation period and haven't developed Covid. But if you're still worried tell him to get the test.

@Viviennemary

Sorry I don't see a problem if they've followed the rules. And they've finished the isolation period and haven't developed Covid. But if you're still worried tell him to get the test.

Our particular problem with it has been perfectly described in @bigbluebus's post above wrt DN and his family.

He is definitely taking a test. We're now having to work out when.

You have to lie to the booking system & say B/C/D have qualifying symptoms, to go get PCR

Can't anyone can get a pcr if they've had confirmed contact with a positive case? Thought they'd changed the qualifying criteria.

I think you do what makes you feel most comfortable. So if he wants to come to your house then a test will need to be taken.

I assumed DSS was a child from your post, I do think at 17 it’s not as big of an ask to take a test as they are pretty much an adult and should have been doing them most of this school year already anyway, especially if you’d want them to take one any time they came to visit.

@twattingparking

You have to lie to the booking system & say B/C/D have qualifying symptoms, to go get PCR

Can't anyone can get a pcr if they've had confirmed contact with a positive case? Thought they'd changed the qualifying criteria.

They can, yes.

@PrettyBlunt

I think you do what makes you feel most comfortable. So if he wants to come to your house then a test will need to be taken.

Yep, them's my thoughts too.

@JaffaRaf

I assumed DSS was a child from your post, I do think at 17 it’s not as big of an ask to take a test as they are pretty much an adult and should have been doing them most of this school year already anyway, especially if you’d want them to take one any time they came to visit.

I agree, and I'm sorry I didn't note his age sooner, because it does make a difference - and may well have made a difference to our own approach if he'd been younger.

I think you're being a bit bonkers about it.

He's done his isolation.

Even if he had covid, he could still test positive for 3 months afterwards - when would you decide he is allowed to see his dad?