Covid and kids

[Ticklemycarpets]

So with everything opening up, Covid rates rising and kids being the major group unvaccinated, I need to understand better the risk to kids so I can weigh up what we do / don't do this summer.

Are there some comparisons that you know of?
I'd like to know the death rate for kids of Covid compared to chicken pox for example.
Can kids get long Covid?

If it's similar to chickenpox for example it wouldn't stop us visiting friends but it outcomes are worse or there's the risk of long Covid.

On Twitter today there's a CNN News interview with an Arkansas hospital doctor speaking about the delta variant and children. At his hospital he said they have unvaccinated teenagers in ICU, some on ventilators, and he was urging teenagers to get vaccinated.

My main concerns are around long covid, we seek to callously not care about the damage it may do to our children, for life

Excellent twitter thread by a Senior Lecturer in epidemiology and statistical genetics:

twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1417513507935948810

"the overall incidence of long COVID [is] between 10-50% of those infected"

And then @jneill is looking at child covid specifically: twitter.com/jneill (source of attached child hospitalisation rate chart)

Covid isn't mucking about - why people would put their kids at risk of having their brains altered by an infectious disease is beyond me.

I read someone reasearchibg long covid and obesity. Is it a cause or factor i dont know.
But research to find if this is why some kids get long covid is needed as it's fixable or they could be added to the vax list. (Im sure it's not the whole picture)

Anecdotally, my 11 year old has it now and she barely knows she has it. She has no underlying issues and a good varied diet, but nothing remarkable to add.

Re: long covid risk:

twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1417513507935948810

oops! I see @lurkingdh has alreadt posted the same thread I have. It's worth a read.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-jcvi-statement/jvci-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-15-july-2021

Concerns have been raised regarding post-acute COVID-19 syndrome (long COVID) in children. Emerging large-scale epidemiological studies indicate that this risk is very low in children, especially in comparison with adults, and similar to the sequelae of other respiratory viral infections in children

It’s time to get a grip and let our dc get on with their lives.

@lurkingdh

Deepti Gurdasani is a zero covid ideologue who has been seeking to spout fear and exaggerate the risk of covid (particularly long covid) to DC for her own political ends.

Listen to the interview with Prof Adam Finn from the JCVI on BBC radio the other day- he says she has been highly irresponsible.

Professor Tim Spector gives the risk of symptoms having a significant impact on the ability to live a normal life three months after developing Covid at 1.2% for unvaccinated children. So a small risk on an individual level, but also meaning that it's likely that before long we'll all know at least one child who has been affected.

"My 17yr old son has it now, as do I."

Medically speaking, he isn't a child.

Covid hasn't killed healthy babies, kawasaki disease has affected less children than chicken pox does. Other childhood diseases cause lymph node reactions for months. A lot of tonsillectomies are done because the tonsils haven't returned to normal size, or are holding on to infection. 'long Covid' in children is the same as post viral fatigue. People are recovering from 'long Covid', much more than from post viral chronic fatigue. Because of Covid we are just hearing about it and taking notice.

The issue with the US is that at first they didn't consider morbid obesity as an underlying condition. If you read the Lancet reports, what looked like healthy children dying, were serverly obese children. Likewise in the younger people who died in the US, obesity was the underlying condition.

There's no reason in terms of the children who you should limit visiting their friends.

[quote GreenLakes]@lurkingdh

Deepti Gurdasani is a zero covid ideologue who has been seeking to spout fear and exaggerate the risk of covid (particularly long covid) to DC for her own political ends.

Listen to the interview with Prof Adam Finn from the JCVI on BBC radio the other day- he says she has been highly irresponsible.[/quote]
I can't agree.

I've only seen the word ideologue bandied about by people who don't like an expert's professional opinion. Which of the stats quoted in that thread are wrong?

The JCVI has seemingly gone against expert consensus on covid in children e.g not taking long covid into account at all, leading to their baffling conclusion to advise against vaccinating kids.

"57% reported long COVID had negatively affected general well-being; 39% reported it had negatively affected their ability to exercise and 30% reported it had negatively affected their work. "
twitter.com/pimlicat/status/1417776982113374210

Fears of long covid are entirely justified. And @Ponoka7 - there's readily available data that proves categorically that your'e wrong. It's not just viral fatigue. There's organ damage, often including to the brain.

I get why people are desperate for this to be all over, and so to try to rationalise and downplay the risks, but at some stage you have to accept the reality (even though our government have given up as it's too hard).

So in England there were 25 Covid registered deaths of the under 16. Of these 19 had known underlying health conditions leaving 6 deaths with either no underlying health conditions or not known underlying health conditions.

By comparison between 75 and 100 mostly under 5s die every year from RSV and 75 to 100 under 16 from norovirus.

So in England there were 25 Covid registered deaths of the under 16. Of these 19 had known underlying health conditions leaving 6 deaths with either no underlying health conditions or not known underlying health conditions.

So 25% of children who have died from Covid have had no known underlying health conditions.

See, we can all interpret the numbers how we choose to.

@Pissinthepottyplease

33,000 kids in the U.K. have long covid. I wish they would allow children in the U.K. to be vaccinated.

This. Huge Facebook groups full of parents. Kids unable to return to school, unable to play. Just like the adults and NHS staff who are now being sacked after being off for 12months and adding to the waiting lists.£100k children didn’t return to school after first lock down, either due to needing to keep shielding or long covid.

Saying your don’t know anyone with long covid is rubbish. I’m sure all those back on the day who didn’t know someone with thalidomide damage didn’t believe it existed.

@lurkingdh

I don’t doubt that there are a small number of people who do have long term effects from COVID- some of these will be serious.

But Deepti Gurdasani and the other independent sage activists keep bandying around figures that are totally self-reported.

This is a problem as 1. There is no evidence most of these self-reporters have ever had covid and 2. Even if they have, there’s no evidence these symptoms are caused by it.

What we know for certain on the other hand is that DC (and young people) are and have suffered from restrictions.

🤣🤣 at links to the conservativewoman, if ever you want a bunch of rabid misinformation peddlers then look no further!

This is meant to be a decent study as it includes a control group who didn't have Covid. There's no perfect studies but this is one of the better ones. It shows post viral symptoms after Covid in children aren't common. jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782164

We should however be very worried about not exposing children to diseases as this link highlights twitter.com/ID_ethics/status/1417743889524412416?s=20

Here's further studies and commentary on why post viral symptoms after Covid in children are overestimated twitter.com/ShamezLadhani/status/1417765913198223366?s=20

I completely get why people are 'taking their chances' but as a parent with a child who has had long Covid (confirmed, 15 months and counting) I would try and avoid it at all costs! The issue is we had no idea that our DD would be susceptible to it. She was very fit and healthy until last April. Our other DC also had Covid and was fine after 2 weeks, sadly this is the nature of this illness...you never know. DD had a very mild initial infection, certainly not needing hospital (at that point), I had assumed she would be better in 2 weeks but that didn't happen, she just got worse in many different ways.

Thankfully death rates are low in kids but there are thousands of kids in the UK suffering from life changing symptoms after Covid. Just look at long covid kids organisation. Almost all have no prior conditions or issues.

Personally my DD is mostly better and we are trying to move on but it has been awful for her to spend so long sick with nobody knowing a.) what was wrong with her and b.) of any treatment that may help. There has been ZERO help really except 'pacing' and the reality is she had some mild organ damage and has lost a year of her life due to illness. She's 8. This is 100% due to Covid for her, it's on all her medical records as the cause. A year is a long time when you are this young and your friends are all out having fun. I am beyond grateful that she is mostly better but to those who think it's 'just post viral fatigue or a dodgy tummy' i think there will be a shock coming down the line when we have thousands of kids complaining of heart, lung, liver, kidney and brain issues alongside classic 'post viral fatigue'. There are studies happening right now into the long term effect of Covid in kids (MRI organ imaging), this has only just been funded so right now we don't really know that much.

Having said all of this I strongly believe that kids' mental health is hugely important and I am not advocating that we all stay home and do nothing (especially kids) but I think people are unaware that this illness can and does have consequences for many children. As the number of kids infected goes up so will the number with long term issues from it unless we are now seeing a weakened version of the virus but I don't know if that is the case.

[quote GreenLakes]@lurkingdh

I don’t doubt that there are a small number of people who do have long term effects from COVID- some of these will be serious.

But Deepti Gurdasani and the other independent sage activists keep bandying around figures that are totally self-reported.

This is a problem as 1. There is no evidence most of these self-reporters have ever had covid and 2. Even if they have, there’s no evidence these symptoms are caused by it.

What we know for certain on the other hand is that DC (and young people) are and have suffered from restrictions.[/quote]
Why do you think all long covid data is self reported? You seem to have no idea how and why certain symptoms are reported. Some may be self reported, depending into be survey, others are collected via gps and consultants.

Ds had covid, after having covid then Kawasaki syndrome and being under consultant care. So his symptoms, that have been going on for over a year have been monitored and reported. It’s not just me filling in an online survey that he “felt a bit tired the other day” or some such bollocks.

Yes, everyone wants to get back to “normal”, lockdowns affect everyone. But misrepresenting studies and data, and throwing children under the bus is not a great look, is it.

@Cherubb I’m so sorry to hear about your dd we went through similar with ds (he was 10, and like your dd completely healthy beforehand.) He should have been the lowest of low risk, but like your dd a year of his life was affected. It’s now 15 months on and he’s still having relapses. I hope your dd carries on getting stronger and you get any support you need to - it is hard going through the process with doctors telling you they don’t know what’s happening and they don’t know how to help. That was incredibly stressful

@Pootle40

Have you heard of any kinds (not vulnerable) being seriously ill or dying? I certainly haven't. There's your answer.

I have, my ds was really ill and still has problems after a year. Does that count? Bless you though for thinking your experience as one person is the definitive “answer”.

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo so sorry to hear about your son too. I know there are thousands of us sadly. I hope you son is improving?! My DD turned a corner at about 12 months but I know it is different for each person. We have had some success with the Perrin technique massage, that has helped her a lot (with the fatigue side). Worth looking into if you haven't already and if he has issues with fatigue and brain fog. Sending .

[quote GiveMeNovocain]We should however be very worried about not exposing children to diseases as this link highlights twitter.com/ID_ethics/status/1417743889524412416?s=20

Here's further studies and commentary on why post viral symptoms after Covid in children are overestimated twitter.com/ShamezLadhani/status/1417765913198223366?s=20[/quote]
There’s a heck of a lot of “most” and “some” in his posts. So the rest, who do develop symptoms, and/or do get long covid can just be ignored? (Up to 40% of children in secondary schools going by his figures.) Is it of course great news that children are less affected as a group. But it is not “all” children who magically can’t catch covid, and ignoring that group to prove a point is pretty heartless not to mention medically unsound, as the children who do end up ill will need treatment.