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Do 18yr olds really need to have the jab?

117 replies

In2mindsaaarrgghh · 19/07/2021 17:03

My 18yr old DS hasn’t had his first jab and keeps putting it off. We have discussed this with him, however he says it’s not something he’s worried about. He also tested positive a few months ago, despite being completely asymptomatic, so hasn’t experienced any negative Covid effects, including Long Covid. I guess there is a feeling of invincibility. He does have mild asthma, however no other underlying health conditions. So pretty fit and healthy generally. The thing is I can see things from his point of view. So I’m not pushing him to have the jab, despite being double jabbed myself. My main issue is with the incidences of Pericarditis and Myocarditis in young men who’ve had the Pfizer jab. The MHRA and the JCVI have confirmed that there is a small risk in this group. So, I’m not keen on him having the jab until we have further information, neither is he but for different reasons. I know it may limit him socially but to be honest there are ways round it. Travel abroad may be the main issue, but that doesn’t really matter this year. Is anyone else in the same situation or have concerns about the Pfizer jab in the young?

OP posts:
ZZTopGuitarSolo · 19/07/2021 18:02

I have 4 teens at home, they've all had the Pfizer. Not because they are particularly at risk but because they want to contribute to herd immunity and for everyone's lives to get back to normal.

We researched the myocarditis risk. You have a higher risk of getting it from Covid than from the vaccine.

Geamhradh · 19/07/2021 18:21

I don't know any teens who don't want the vaccine. Of the 300 I teach.
I'd have thought an asthmatic would be keener than most. My student who has heart issues had her second dose today.

User24689 · 19/07/2021 18:21

@ZZTopGuitarSolo Could you please link to that research you found re: myocarditis. My DH is really concerned about this so if there is data supporting the likelihood being higher with covid I would be interested in that.

@In2mindsaaarrgghh I see his side of this tbh. The only reason for him to take the vaccine is for the greater good and young people have given up so much that shaming them about the greater good feels wrong!

cls123 · 19/07/2021 18:28

I think if he is one if the lucky ones who was asymptomatic than I dont blame him for not getting the jab...why would anyone on that basis? Thats ultimately the situation that we want all our kids to be in, then we won't have this same crisis in future generations due to covid at least . having to mass vaccinate our entire adult population every year ad infinitum is not financially sustainable or desirable health-wise

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 19/07/2021 18:35

User24689 here's a statement co-signed by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP), American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG), American College of Physicians (ACP), American Heart Association, American Hospital Association (AHA), American Medical Association (AMA), American Nurses Association (ANA), American Pharmacists Association (APhA), American Public Health Association (APHA), Association of Public Health Laboratories, Association of State and Territorial Health Officials (ASTHO), Big Cities Health Coalition, Council of State and Territorial Epidemiologists, Infectious Diseases Society of America, and National Association of County and City Health Officials (NACCHO).

www.hhs.gov/about/news/2021/06/23/statement-following-cdc-acip-meeting-nations-leading-doctors-nurses-public-health-leaders-benefits-vaccination.html

“As physicians, nurses, pharmacists, public health and health care professionals, and, for many of us, parents, we understand the significant interest many Americans have in the safety of the COVID-19 vaccines, especially for younger people. Today, the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) met to discuss the latest data on reports of mild cases of inflammation of the heart muscle and surrounding tissue called myocarditis and pericarditis following COVID-19 vaccination among younger people.

“The facts are clear: this is an extremely rare side effect, and only an exceedingly small number of people will experience it after vaccination. Importantly, for the young people who do, most cases are mild, and individuals recover often on their own or with minimal treatment. In addition, we know that myocarditis and pericarditis are much more common if you get COVID-19, and the risks to the heart from COVID-19 infection can be more severe.

“The vaccines are safe and effective, and they prevent COVID-19 illness. They will help protect you and your family and keep your community safe. We strongly encourage everyone age 12 and older who are eligible to receive the vaccine under Emergency Use Authorization to get vaccinated, as the benefits of vaccination far outweigh any harm. Especially with the troubling Delta variant increasingly circulating, and more readily impacting younger people, the risks of being unvaccinated are far greater than any rare side effects from the vaccines. If you get COVID-19, you could get severely ill and be hospitalized or even die. Even if your infection is mild, you or your child could face long-term symptoms following COVID-19 infection such as neurological problems or diminished lung function.”

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 19/07/2021 18:38

@Geamhradh

I don't know any teens who don't want the vaccine. Of the 300 I teach. I'd have thought an asthmatic would be keener than most. My student who has heart issues had her second dose today.
Yes - the vaccination has been available here (US) for over 16s since April, and by June the vast majority of high schoolers in my town were vaccinated and able to take all their exams as normal, attend school as normal, go to work as normal, and attend their prom - even if they had been exposed to Covid.
HalzTangz · 19/07/2021 18:46

@In2mindsaaarrgghh

My 18yr old DS hasn’t had his first jab and keeps putting it off. We have discussed this with him, however he says it’s not something he’s worried about. He also tested positive a few months ago, despite being completely asymptomatic, so hasn’t experienced any negative Covid effects, including Long Covid. I guess there is a feeling of invincibility. He does have mild asthma, however no other underlying health conditions. So pretty fit and healthy generally. The thing is I can see things from his point of view. So I’m not pushing him to have the jab, despite being double jabbed myself. My main issue is with the incidences of Pericarditis and Myocarditis in young men who’ve had the Pfizer jab. The MHRA and the JCVI have confirmed that there is a small risk in this group. So, I’m not keen on him having the jab until we have further information, neither is he but for different reasons. I know it may limit him socially but to be honest there are ways round it. Travel abroad may be the main issue, but that doesn’t really matter this year. Is anyone else in the same situation or have concerns about the Pfizer jab in the young?
After today's announcement if he wants to go clubbing etc in September he will need to have the jabs. But in terms of is it worth it, for someone his age who I presume is healthy he's likely to have minor symptoms if he does get covid. That said, it's who he passes it onto that's the problem, he could infect someone that won't be so lucky to have minor symptoms.
In2mindsaaarrgghh · 19/07/2021 19:07

@Geamhradh

I don't know any teens who don't want the vaccine. Of the 300 I teach. I'd have thought an asthmatic would be keener than most. My student who has heart issues had her second dose today.
I think among his peer group some have had the vaccine and some haven’t, maybe 50:50 . I also think the fact that he tested positive a few months ago and didn’t have ANY symptoms or suffer any ill effects has played a part. His asthma really is mild and doesn’t affect him usually. Plays lots of sport etc
OP posts:
In2mindsaaarrgghh · 19/07/2021 19:11

@User24689 That’s how I feel. They’ve given up so much already to their detriment. Johnson is now trying to blackmail the young by telling them that they won’t be able to go to nightclubs unless they have been fully vaccinated, so who knows.

OP posts:
Wellbythebloodyhell · 19/07/2021 19:17

If he wants to go to a nightclub or festival after September then yes he needs to have the vaccine although to me this seems a very unethical reason and I'm angry as a society we are allowing this coercion of our younger society to happen . Start of a very slippery slope. I feel sorry for those effectively being forced into it to enjoy the rites of passage experiences that previous generations have all had the benefit from. If covid were serious or deadly in great numbers to this age group maybe I'd feel differently, but yet again the young are taking an unnecessary hit to protect the older and vulnerable and in turn (judging from some comments on MN ) get absolutely no thanks for

Abraxan · 19/07/2021 19:23

New rules coming in at the end of September means he won't be able to visit a club and other crowded venues unless he is fully vaccinated.
He may also find it becomes dearer for him to travel abroad - fully vaccinated don't need to quarantine but those without do, and require additional tests. Some countries may not allow him in - different countries have different rules to us.

Dd is 19y and is now fully vaccinated, she got her first early by queuing for hours at a drop in centre, along with hundreds more. She had her second at another drop in so that she can be fully vaccinated plus 2+ weeks before she goes to festivals this summer.

Every one of her friends have had at least one vaccine now. None has delayed it getting it, they all seem very keen and see it as a way to return to normality sooner. Others have also had it to protect elderly and/or vulnerable family members or friends. Two of DD's friends are vulnerable plus two others have asthma (but not group 6) and they were among the ones also queuing to get their jabs ASAP.

All have been fine and only one had side effects which was an achy headachy feeling for the next day, rest had nothing more than an achy arm.

FizziWater · 19/07/2021 19:29

Many 18 year olds will go to uni in September. If vaccinated they wont be required to isolate. Thinking back to those locked in halls last year.

thinkingaboutitall · 19/07/2021 19:41

I’m 22 and had the vaccine last week. Since my age group could book, I had been undecided whether I would get it for the reasons listed here, but just impulse booked it the day before! As you say, the vaccine is of little benefit to me - my jab mainly protects others

Whilst I agree that the young have sacrificed a lot for the greater good already, I don’t think the vaccine is a huge detriment. I have had no short term side effects and have already fully recovered; so it seems more beneficial than detrimental from my limited experience

You’re right about the pressure to get vaccinated though. My friends who are vaccinated did so as we just want to get back to normal, and those who aren’t said they would consider it when vaccine passports are implemented as to not be excluded from society. None of us actually got the vaccine to protect ourselves from covid!

In2mindsaaarrgghh · 19/07/2021 20:22

@ZZTopGuitarSolo The risk of heart problems may be small but so is the risk from Covid for that age group. The main reason they would be vaccinated is to protect the older population, unless they themselves had an underlying condition.

OP posts:
In2mindsaaarrgghh · 19/07/2021 20:24

@cls123 It’s completely understandable. The vaccine is to protect older adults not that age group.

OP posts:
In2mindsaaarrgghh · 19/07/2021 20:27

@HalzTangz He’s already tested positive for C-19 and was absolutely fine. I understand that he could pass it on, however older people and vulnerable people need to ensure that they are vaccinated to mitigate that risk.

OP posts:
ZZTopGuitarSolo · 19/07/2021 20:57

[quote In2mindsaaarrgghh]@ZZTopGuitarSolo The risk of heart problems may be small but so is the risk from Covid for that age group. The main reason they would be vaccinated is to protect the older population, unless they themselves had an underlying condition.[/quote]
Yes all the risks to him are miniscule either way. But by getting vaccinated he contributes to life getting back to normal.

One of the reasons DD1 got vaccinated was because her 18yo college friends had a heart transplant recently, and for her the Covid vaccine probably won't work. It's not just the older population you're protecting by getting vaccinated.

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 19/07/2021 20:58

Singular friend, not friends (that really would be tragic).

cls123 · 19/07/2021 21:20

[quote In2mindsaaarrgghh]@cls123 It’s completely understandable. The vaccine is to protect older adults not that age group.[/quote]
i'm not talking about 18 year olds in general, i would have the jab in their position as unless you've had covid you've no idea how hard it will hit you.My point was that this particular individual was asymptomatic when he had covid recently so the likelihood of him passing on any future infection is potentially very low....do you not think that even a twice vaccinated person who shows significant symptoms eg.coughing and sneezing(which does happen) is more likely to pass it on than someone who has no symptoms at all?

RoseAddict · 19/07/2021 21:29

I’m with your son on this. I’m also unvaccinated (so far). I’ve had covid incredibly mildly and have been in contact with other cases on a regular basis since then. I am a bit baffled as to why no one thinks natural immunity is a thing any more when vaccines wouldn’t work if it wasn’t a thing.

Lettheeveningbegin · 19/07/2021 21:36

My friends 18 year old son has just spent 6 nights in intensive care with Covid and is now on a Covid recovery ward. A totally healthy lad with no underlying conditions. I’ve also had it, I’m fully vaccinated and it knocked me for six. It’s certainly made me rethink.

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 19/07/2021 21:40

@RoseAddict

I’m with your son on this. I’m also unvaccinated (so far). I’ve had covid incredibly mildly and have been in contact with other cases on a regular basis since then. I am a bit baffled as to why no one thinks natural immunity is a thing any more when vaccines wouldn’t work if it wasn’t a thing.
directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/ (Sorry - this is long but important.)

How Immunity Generated from COVID-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

A key issue as we move closer to ending the pandemic is determining more precisely how long people exposed to SARS-CoV-2, the COVID-19 virus, will make neutralizing antibodies against this dangerous coronavirus. Finding the answer is also potentially complicated with new SARS-CoV-2 “variants of concern” appearing around the world that could find ways to evade acquired immunity, increasing the chances of new outbreaks.

Now, a new NIH-supported study shows that the answer to this question will vary based on how an individual’s antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 were generated: over the course of a naturally acquired infection or from a COVID-19 vaccine. The new evidence shows that protective antibodies generated in response to an mRNA vaccine will target a broader range of SARS-CoV-2 variants carrying “single letter” changes in a key portion of their spike protein compared to antibodies acquired from an infection.

These results add to evidence that people with acquired immunity may have differing levels of protection to emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants. More importantly, the data provide further documentation that those who’ve had and recovered from a COVID-19 infection still stand to benefit from getting vaccinated.

These latest findings come from Jesse Bloom, Allison Greaney, and their team at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, Seattle. In an earlier study, this same team focused on the receptor binding domain (RBD), a key region of the spike protein that studs SARS-CoV-2’s outer surface. This RBD is especially important because the virus uses this part of its spike protein to anchor to another protein called ACE2 on human cells before infecting them. That makes RBD a prime target for both naturally acquired antibodies and those generated by vaccines. Using a method called deep mutational scanning, the Seattle group’s previous study mapped out all possible mutations in the RBD that would change the ability of the virus to bind ACE2 and/or for RBD-directed antibodies to strike their targets.

In their new study, published in the journal Science Translational Medicine, Bloom, Greaney, and colleagues looked again to the thousands of possible RBD variants to understand how antibodies might be expected to hit their targets there [1]. This time, they wanted to explore any differences between RBD-directed antibodies based on how they were acquired.

Again, they turned to deep mutational scanning. First, they created libraries of all 3,800 possible RBD single amino acid mutants and exposed the libraries to samples taken from vaccinated individuals and unvaccinated individuals who’d been previously infected. All vaccinated individuals had received two doses of the Moderna mRNA vaccine. This vaccine works by prompting a person’s cells to produce the spike protein, thereby launching an immune response and the production of antibodies.

By closely examining the results, the researchers uncovered important differences between acquired immunity in people who’d been vaccinated and unvaccinated people who’d been previously infected with SARS-CoV-2. Specifically, antibodies elicited by the mRNA vaccine were more focused to the RBD compared to antibodies elicited by an infection, which more often targeted other portions of the spike protein. Importantly, the vaccine-elicited antibodies targeted a broader range of places on the RBD than those elicited by natural infection.

These findings suggest that natural immunity and vaccine-generated immunity to SARS-CoV-2 will differ in how they recognize new viral variants. What’s more, antibodies acquired with the help of a vaccine may be more likely to target new SARS-CoV-2 variants potently, even when the variants carry new mutations in the RBD.

It’s not entirely clear why these differences in vaccine- and infection-elicited antibody responses exist. In both cases, RBD-directed antibodies are acquired from the immune system’s recognition and response to viral spike proteins. The Seattle team suggests these differences may arise because the vaccine presents the viral protein in slightly different conformations.

Also, it’s possible that mRNA delivery may change the way antigens are presented to the immune system, leading to differences in the antibodies that get produced. A third difference is that natural infection only exposes the body to the virus in the respiratory tract (unless the illness is very severe), while the vaccine is delivered to muscle, where the immune system may have an even better chance of seeing it and responding vigorously.

Whatever the underlying reasons turn out to be, it’s important to consider that humans are routinely infected and re-infected with other common coronaviruses, which are responsible for the common cold. It’s not at all unusual to catch a cold from seasonal coronaviruses year after year. That’s at least in part because those viruses tend to evolve to escape acquired immunity, much as SARS-CoV-2 is now in the process of doing.

The good news so far is that, unlike the situation for the common cold, we have now developed multiple COVID-19 vaccines. The evidence continues to suggest that acquired immunity from vaccines still offers substantial protection against the new variants now circulating around the globe.

The hope is that acquired immunity from the vaccines will indeed produce long-lasting protection against SARS-CoV-2 and bring an end to the pandemic. These new findings point encouragingly in that direction. They also serve as an important reminder to roll up your sleeve for the vaccine if you haven’t already done so, whether or not you’ve had COVID-19. Our best hope of winning this contest with the virus is to get as many people immunized now as possible. That will save lives, and reduce the likelihood of even more variants appearing that might evade protection from the current vaccines.

Pissinthepottyplease · 19/07/2021 21:49

[quote In2mindsaaarrgghh]@HalzTangz He’s already tested positive for C-19 and was absolutely fine. I understand that he could pass it on, however older people and vulnerable people need to ensure that they are vaccinated to mitigate that risk.[/quote]
Not all of them can be vaccinated and for many immunosuppressed people the vaccine will have limited success, the same is true for many vulnerable people.

AlmostSummer21 · 19/07/2021 21:49

[quote In2mindsaaarrgghh]@HalzTangz He’s already tested positive for C-19 and was absolutely fine. I understand that he could pass it on, however older people and vulnerable people need to ensure that they are vaccinated to mitigate that risk.[/quote]
Not everyone that's vulnerable can be vaccinated and it's not effective in some that are extremely vulnerable.

Obviously his choice, but it does impact others & will impact him later on in the year.

Abraxan · 20/07/2021 10:35

@RoseAddict

I’m with your son on this. I’m also unvaccinated (so far). I’ve had covid incredibly mildly and have been in contact with other cases on a regular basis since then. I am a bit baffled as to why no one thinks natural immunity is a thing any more when vaccines wouldn’t work if it wasn’t a thing.
Sadly not everyone will get it mildly, including some younger people. You just don't know who will be the unlucky one.

Not all vulnerable people can have the vaccine, including some young CEV/CV people. And some vulnerable and elderly people have poor immune systems which means even if they have the vaccine it may well not work well for them. You don't know who those people are so being vaccinated means you are less likely to catch it and less likely to transmit it to someone like that.

Not everyone develops immunity from covid, plus we know it is possible to catch it more than once, especially when there are different variants about. You also don't know how long natural immunity will last. Unless you are having an immunity test regularly you won't know whether you have antibodies or not.

Part of the reason for vaccinating younger people is to protect those around them, as well as themselves.

People are free to make a choice regarding the vaccine and whether they have it or not. But we can't pretend that everyone vulnerable is vaccinated so it doesn't make a difference to them.

Make a choice, but make it knowing that you could pose a risk to yourself or others if remaining unvaccinated rather than dismissing it.

Lots of people are happy to take that risk and that's their choice.