Double vaxxed NHS staff don't isolate

[3asAbird]

From Monday 19th if they double vaxxed they can test daily for 10 days.
Surely this risks greater levels of infections In hospitals?

There isn’t enough NHS staff for as many as are going to be required to isolate in the coming month. It really is as simple as that.

In my cousin’s unit, due to nurses with Covid and those isolating due to being a close contact, they are only running on 82% of their normal staffing numbers. She is very worried that as the world opens up more and masks and social distancing are thrown to the wind, that things will get even worse regarding nursing sickness levels.

But the country can’t be locked down forever so there’s no alternative really. It’s all quite bleak really.

I don't think this is increasing the risk much tbh

We never had to isolate when coming into contact with known Covid positive cases at work as long as wearing PPE so honestly it doesn't make a great deal of sense that we would have to if coming into contact with someone outside work if wearing a mask.

I have my contact tracing on the app switched off at all times. I don't trust it since it pinged my neighbours through the wall when DH and I had Covid and they had to isolate despite never having met us. I check in at venues if required to

You could argue I should never go out anywhere or do anything to reduce risks to patients and early on in the pandemic then I did do that but after 18/12 of this I don't think that's fair. I do take my kids to the cinema and go to the gym myself. I'm getting my haircut today. I haven't tried to book a foreign holiday because of the risk of isolation rules changing so that is a sacrifice I have made for my job. I can't be expected to have no life at all for 2 years because of my job though. If that is the expectation then I will quit as it is not worth that level of sacrifice over such a long time.

@Muchtoomuchtodo

This is a only a proposal for NHS England.

If I was clinically vulnerable, I would be very scared to be admitted knowing this.

I was. After almost 18 months of shielding I had an accident and was admitted, bloody terrifying. I'm home now, but have community rehabilitation & nurses etc coming to see me, it's scary but currently no other option. They all (understandably) have lives outside of work, family gatherings, going out with friends, to the shops, some even went to the football. I can't begrudge them social lives, but I do feel like a sitting duck. A very vulnerable sitting duck.

Not surprised I work in social care we are so understaffed right now it has gone beyond dangerous for service users now.

No hands on deck is more dangerous.

[quote GiveMeNovocain]@AlmostSummer21 you can pray or you can trust the NHS have done their best to balance risk and benefit.

@nether sadly hospital acquired infections are nothing new. We'll do our best but when you've no immunity we can only do so much. We need to have a recovery agenda now otherwise it's a vicious circle. We need to get on top of the the backlog and try to prevent more damage from restrictions. Lockdown and restrictions are not a low cost option[/quote]
How does the NHS balancing overall risk v benefit, benefit me? They are allowing staff to keep working, that should be isolating. Personally it put me at more risk. So I'm stuck keeping my fingers crossed. 🤞🏼

Yet, they took away the free parking. Dh used to use the car to travelto work, instead of public transport because they gave him a free car park covid pass. It was stopped few weeks ago. It would be nice if they could do this again.

This is all games, why would you send possibly infected people to care for cev people? Unless all workers who are supposed to isolate get sent to work elsewhere away from cev and cv people or all people full stop. Get them working from home? Or offices?

I hope they don't close the gym anytime soon. It helps him manage his emotions during this pandemic.

@Northernlurker

We have a pilot running. It's NOT for household or known contacts. Only the app alerts or unknown contacts. Pcr ASAP then daily tests and another pcr and only for staff who are due at work.

This is incorrect, I was invited to take part in the daily contact testing pilot a few weeks ago after DP tested positive (and I work from home).

So if you think NHS staff should isolate after coming into contact with a positive case after they have

• tested negative or
• been double vaccinated or
• worn PPE

or may be two or three of these,

then what is the point of any of those expensive measures?

Even before 2019 I was always at risk of catching something from healthcare providers never mind other patients when on a ward/side room. A couple of years ago I got a cold whilst in hospital that put me in icu.

. I'm sure there used to be jokes about coming out of hospital with more bugs than you went in with.

Masks will still be worn by those not exempt.
Testing will carry on a couple of times a week.

It also won't be long before everyone who is double vaxxe won't need to isolate anymore due to close contact.

We cannot carry on with the isolation of close contacts. It's extremely disruptive to anyone who needs those services. I've been trying to attend an appointment for 2 months now, has been cancelled Every time due to close contact isolation.

If they don't allow staff to keep working who 'should be isolating' then there will be no staff to look after patients at all. There is not an endless supply of staff.

Therefore it is to patients personal advantage to have a bed to be admitted to if they need it. If there are no staff there will be bed closures and bed shortages and lack of access to care.

Problem is staff are already so exhausted by the whole thing. Mentally and physically. In our unit we don't have air conditioning so the heat at the moment is brutal when you are stuck in full ppe. I appreciate that people are desperate to get back to normal but many staff are already running on empty. We have several staff off with mental health issues as well as other things. Freedom day will obviously increase infection rates and undoubtedly hospitalisation too. Maybe not to the extent of the last waves but still significantly. I really do fear for them.

Plus aren't most nhs staff vaccinated? And care home workers it's compulsory?
Don't hospitals have systems in place for infection control? they must do otherwise last year before the vaccine, and when they didn't have ppe hospitals would have imploded then considering beds were removed from wards. Ok might have needed taken to a different hospital, and even this isn't unique.

Sounds right up there with “Let’s discharge lots of old vulnerable people into care homes” straight through the ring of steel.

We have lots of pings because there is a lot of COVID and lots of spreading of COVID. If I tested positive it mean at least 10 people would be in prolonged close contact and should isolate.

We should have stamped out the delta variant when it appeared. Even if it meant rolling back unlocking.

Spreading COVID infections are still the biggest risk because we are 2 months short of fulling vaccinating the population to the extent needed.

It doesn't look as though anyone has actually read the official guidance.

The working if double vaccinated and pinged is attached to a massive caveat in the guidance I was sent yetserday, which is

if there is a critical demand on services or a clinical emergency where the benefit of the staff member attending work outweighs the potential risk

I imagine this is for the Covid ward staff.

Those on the respiratory wards (not ICU) have very low level PPE and might easily get Covid, but since they are nearly all fully vaccinated, they might be OK to carry on treating other Covid positive patients...

Not ideal, but hospitals are bracing for very high Covid admissions in the next few weeks and staffing is a huge issue.

Sorry I have extrapolated a bit to the staff actually having Covid.

it isn't even anywhere near as bad as that. It just means they are only close contacts and are testing every day. So they are unlikely to even have Covid and from 16 August this will apply to anyone who is double vaccinated, so it is only for 4 weeks and then anyone you interact with might be a fully vaccinated close contact doing daily testing.

Btw Tony Blair (whose advice on nearly everything pandemic related has been correct so far) says that double-vaccinated people should be treated differently to the voluntarily unvaccinated, so it's not just a daft Tory money-making short-termist dodgy scheme.

Yes it does make it more likely to have infections in hospitals and hospitals are full of vulnerable people especially elderly who were jabbed ages ago.

@Thewiseoneincognito

Just a little grammar lesson. 'Whom' is incorrect here, it should be 'who'. It is the subject in this sentence, not the object, i.e. those, who.....cannot. Don't feel too embarrassed about it, the who/whom distinction is on its way out in English after all. So if you're not sure, it really is best just to stick to 'who'. It's almost always acceptable to use the subject form now, even when strictly speaking it should be 'whom'. However if you hypercorrect and use 'whom', where it should be 'who', you risk looking a bit silly to those who do understand the distinction.

So what’s your suggestion for those whom you ‘appreciate can not be vaccinated’? Last time I checked self isolation wasn’t an additional holiday either.

@Ginfilledcats

Slightly different to a doctor I know but I’m a support worker (private sector, social care) and i am earning triple the amount I usually can. Yesterday I did a 15 hour shift for 30 pounds an hour. My boss literally begged me to work, and even left out extra money for a takeaway of my choice.

Staffing levels are currently very dangerous for service users. A lot of their needs are simply not currently being met.

First day off tomorrow in 9 consecutive days and I know my phone will be pinging tomorrow asking me to go in.

It’s a no though, I am tired 😴.

Sorry wrong word,
Not slightly….. hugely 🤣

@LarsErickssong I doubt we work for the same Trust and I can assure you those are the terms of our trial currently.

@freckles20

I have a friend who is a HCP on a geriatric ward. She has been told to turn the app off at work.

She has the app on at other times and has been pinged several times since the app went live and each time has been told to come to work by the head of nursing. She has been really upset about it but was worried about loosing her job so did as she was told.

Same, such a worry.

@Imfedupwithallofthis in answer to your question my friend is careful. I know her well enough to know that she is very concerned about catching Covid, not least because her husband has breathing difficulties. She has seen first hand how it can make someone very poorly.

She has been responsible and socially distanced herself. Each time she has been confused by the 'ping'. She does have three young children, and travels on a bus so isolating completely hasn't been an option.

You may want to think carefully about judging people who have been 'pinged' as having not been careful. Ot seems unfair to do so. It is not always as simple as you assume. Some people's living, travelling, or working circumstances make it very difficult. I can only assume you have a job where you can wfh or easily distance, drive your own car and have been able to shop over the internet. Some people live differently to you.

• sorry my prsvymeasge should say 'social distancing' rather than 'isolating'.

My daughter was nursing on a Covid ward for six months. So obviously in close contact with Covid cases all day. If she and her team were isolated due to contact with Covid cases there'd be no one working on her ward! So this isn't all that new.

She had to do lvt tests at home before each shift and had a weekly PCR at work.
Obviously, she caught Covid from her patients because the only PPE they had was a blue mask, disposable apron and gloves