Double vaxxed NHS staff don't isolate

[3asAbird]

From Monday 19th if they double vaxxed they can test daily for 10 days.
Surely this risks greater levels of infections In hospitals?

I've been told this at work too, we've been struggling for weeks for staffing due to isolation rules. It's been horrendous and will only get worse! I don't know what the alternative if though.

We've been so short we've had to pay junior doctors that we would normally pay £40 an hour for an extra shift over £100 because theyre that reluctant to do extra shifts, and in such high demand that they can name a price! It's terrible.

Wish there was a better safer way through all this.

I dont think the country can afford all the pings, financially.

But I am now so confused by the whole covid thing, I cant say I really know the best way out of the mess.

We currently have over 30% of staff off isolating. Add this to normal sickness, people with prebooked AL, it’s causing a real crisis trying to keep my ward open. So it seems a necessary idea to me

I think depends on department you work with.
If you working with cev/ cancer patients one member staff potentially having covid would be awful.

The government were so preoccupied with deaths admissions numbers saying nhs could cope whenever they never considered staff.
We know the NHS short staffed which is why the nitingale hospitals never worked well..

@paulhollywoodshairgel

My sister works for the local NHS trust and they started following this procedure last Monday. PCR on day 1 & 5 of being pinged and LFT or lamp test every day. 6 people on the ward she works on were pinged on Monday. All followed this protocol. No one positive so far. All used their common sense while not at work. Avoided crowds, social distancing etc.

If the actual positives are very low, then they should do what I thought of ages ago (and is now done at Israel’s main airport: grouped PCR). You just take 50 swabs. Run the PCR. If it’s negative, happy days. If it’s not, you run the samples separately.

With some clever maths on probabilities, you could increase PCR testing capacity a ridiculous amount.

Test all staff 3x a week via this method.

I suspect that eventually this will replace isolation for all.

There is already plans for this to come in for double vaccinated adults (and children?) in August?

Unfortunately, we can’t afford to keep healthy adults (and children) at home forever.

You would have thought they would have seen this coming when they were planning.

Obviously not.

@SpringRainbow

I suspect that eventually this will replace isolation for all.

There is already plans for this to come in for double vaccinated adults (and children?) in August?

Unfortunately, we can’t afford to keep healthy adults (and children) at home forever.

You would have thought they would have seen this coming when they were planning.

Obviously not.

There’s a difference between healthy adults who interact with vulnerable people on a daily basis and healthy adults who generally don’t.

Treating them the same would be beyond careless.

I wonder if the NMC have issued a statement about this yet ?

I would do it if I had it in writing from my manager that they are insisting I work, even though they know there is a risk that I could test positive.
I do wonder if it would be better if we just increased the testing for NHS staff across the board, so up the number of tests from twice a week to three times a week or every other day, for the next month or so ?

They are so short staff due to the number of staff isolating so not sure what you purpose they do?!

I know this, well a lft every other day has been policy for the last couple of weeks in my area for 2 different health authorities.

@freckles20

I have a friend who is a HCP on a geriatric ward. She has been told to turn the app off at work.

She has the app on at other times and has been pinged several times since the app went live and each time has been told to come to work by the head of nursing. She has been really upset about it but was worried about loosing her job so did as she was told.

Your friend doesn't have the contact tracing turned on at work, and turns it back on again after her shift.

Why has she been pinged so many times? Doesn't she realise that she is was supposed to socially distance from other people?

Genuinely don't understand.

Now that nobody has to socially distance at all (if in England), she may still be notified as a contact, as she may be spending more time in close contact with her friends and family.

As for strangers, she would be well advised to continue socially distancing herself from them if she is concerned about her patients.

My cousin is a nurse and she said that yes, all staff were told to delete the NHS App.

All they wear is the blue surgical mask around potential Covid cases - she works in an adult A&E department. They are obviously in close contact for a lot of time with the patients, as are the doctors who are also in just wearing the blue surgical masks.

Apparently there was a time they trialled the use of regular LFT but it soon stopped as my cousin said the department, well all of the NHS really, couldn’t afford for lots of their staff to go off sick if there were any asymptomatic carriers detected.

She doesn’t know what the answer is but she’s very anxious about ‘Freedom Day’.

They are having to do this or there will not be enough staff to run the hospitals due to self isolation. Combine it with summer holiday leave and it's a real prospect that services will have to be shut, appts cancelled etc. Look at the car factory and shops that shut purely due to isolations. They really have no choice.

We already have the app off at work on management instructions and contact with a positive patient or fellow staff member 'doesn't count' if you are wearing PPE. That's been the case since the start as otherwise how would COVID wards run? The staff would be isolating all the time as we are in contact every day.

As work contacts in PPE essentially don't count we are in the same position as everyone else in the world who will not have to self isolate after mid August if double jabbed. Presumably they chose that date so that everyone would be 3
weeks post 2nd jab and as NHS staff all had ours early then we are already many weeks post the 2nd one and mostly had Pfizer. It makes some sense that we can go to the new system earlier.

You can debate the reliability of PPE but the rules haven't changed on it since the start. FFP3 masks certainly do work to stop transmission. The normal FRSM blue ones not so much.

We have been doing 2x weekly LFTs for ages which will continue. They aren't amazing accuracy. You can't be sure a negative is a true negative but some cases have been picked up hopefully before they can spread it.

This is just a pragmatic policy to keep the NHS running and it is necessary.

@CrouchEndTiger12 happened to the healthcare assistant I work with, was pinged after going to the pub, positive LFT when she got the ping and confirmed by PCR. Double jabbed, but not sure she’s had it before or not.

@Itsprobablynotcominghome I’m not saying I agree with this. However, the country is in crisis and this is how the Government are choosing to deal with it.

They don’t want ‘healthy’ people sat at home when they could be clearing up their mess working.

This is why I can see eventually, this becomes the rule everywhere.

Nothing unique that nhs staff have been asked to turn the app off when at work. After lockdown 1 the same happened with schools.

With so many infectious diseases around I've often wondered why especially at a&e masks weren't worn as standard until the initial results come back.

@3asAbird

I keep reading lots hospitals and trusts saying don't use the app or switch off as it is. Also paper mentioned doctors and nurses already deleted the app.

The app is bit the issue its pinging because infections are too high.
If we had not let the infections levels get so high there be less pings, less self isolating and pressure on nhs which despite less patients admitted still cant cope .

Correct. I'm in health sector and was told to turn app off when at work.

Also we don't isolate when coming into contact with a known positive patient, as it's "our job"..whereas everyone else isolates. I'm a community healthcare worker, not hospital based, and I wear a standard surgical mask to protect me from covid 19....Don't isolate regardless of how many positive patients I nurse...one weekend I had 10 positive patients....whereas my Son in secondary school had a mask on, came into contact with a positive case and had to isolate for 10 days.

100% it will be key workers and healthcare workers spreading it..but not many people would do the job we do for the money we do it for!!

Also we don't isolate when coming into contact with a known positive patient, as it's "our job"..whereas everyone else isolates. I'm a community healthcare worker, not hospital based, and I wear a standard surgical mask to protect me from covid 19....Don't isolate regardless of how many positive patients I nurse...one weekend I had 10 positive patients....whereas my Son in secondary school had a mask on, came into contact with a positive case and had to isolate for 10 days

It’s so skewed but it’s a case of being stuck between a rock and a hard place isn’t it.

I imagine a lot of the hospital acquired Covid cases are a result of asymptomatic doctors and nurses (and other HCP’s) still working.

A lot of wards (according to my cousin who is in a nurse) don’t wear FFP masks, just the simple blue masks.....so it’s no different to a mask wearing person being a potential contact due to someone in the local pub getting a positive PCR and having to isolate whereas nurses in the same masks don’t isolate despite being in prolonged contact with potential/confirmed cases.

But there’s just no other alternative is there

What about those who work on specialist children’s wards who none have had their vaccinations ?????
Yet we still can’t have Visitors on our children’s ward at all.

In my local hospital (up north) they have two children’s wards and the nurses wear the blue masks and visors.

Each child is allocated two visitors but they can’t be there at the same time. So the usual set up is the two allocated visitors are the parents and they take it in turns to be with their child. Children and parents are PCR tested every day.

My friend was in hospital with her child for about a week and she found it so hard not having the emotional support of her partner because he couldn’t be there with them.

I'm really surprised they haven't said the same for care staff too.

@Jenasaurus

Im NHS (Ambulance Service) we had an email telling us we are still to isolate if a close contact regardless of the change tomorrow.

That's a relief to know. I hope all trusts are doing the same.

Thank you for being there.

@OnTheBrink1

Thee isn’t enough NHS staff for as many as are going to be required to isolate in the coming month. It really is as simple as that. Greater risk of not being saved because there is no one to treat you versus a double vaxxed close contact passing on covid

Fabulous, just what we needed to hear. Not.

Can anything be done, or are we just left to pray we don't need help?

This is a only a proposal for NHS England.

If I was clinically vulnerable, I would be very scared to be admitted knowing this.

@AlmostSummer21 you can pray or you can trust the NHS have done their best to balance risk and benefit.

@nether sadly hospital acquired infections are nothing new. We'll do our best but when you've no immunity we can only do so much. We need to have a recovery agenda now otherwise it's a vicious circle. We need to get on top of the the backlog and try to prevent more damage from restrictions. Lockdown and restrictions are not a low cost option