Do you think this will change how we think about disease long-term?

[GoldenOmber]

One of my colleagues said recently that we shouldn’t be made to go back to the office if on public transport, because even apart from covid rates “there will still be flu and other things.” I’m pretty sure she wasn’t pushing for that pre-covid, when we did have flu and other things. But other people agreed with her so she’s clearly not alone.

So: When covid’s less of a day to day threat, do you think a lot of people will have moved to this idea of illness as something that employers and governments have the duty to protect us from if at all possible, even if it’s about protecting us from feeling shit for a week rather than protecting us from death? Thinking nightclubs and mass gatherings are irresponsible because they could spread flu or RSV? Or even just expecting hand sanitiser stations everywhere, avoiding handshakes, masks for the sneezy?

Or do you think it’s only covid that’s the exception, and we’ll go back to treating other diseases the way we’ve always treated them?

Just curious really. It seems like quite a shift in attitudes if it’s going to stick around.

God I hope not. What a narrow, fearful life that would be.

I really hope so.

Masks and SD during winter, improvements to sick pay, WFH becoming the norm, voluntary isolation if ill...

All very sensible precautions.

But society will try and go back to normal and we will be worse off for it.

This is my one fear from this whole thing, OP. I nearly posted something similar this morning. Health anxiety and a sudden awareness that we can catch any illness at any time (despite that risk having always been there) seems pretty prevalent. It’s the thing I’ve struggled with most by far.

One way systems, limited capacity, time limits, booking systems…life just got a whole lot less spontaneous 😭

@NannyAndJohn

I really hope so.

Masks and SD during winter, improvements to sick pay, WFH becoming the norm, voluntary isolation if ill...

All very sensible precautions.

But society will try and go back to normal and we will be worse off for it.

Costa and McDonalds bringing your order to your car “so you feel safe”, for example. Really?? For people who are not CEV / disabled, this seems utterly unnecessary.

Sorry, not sure how or why I quoted you @NannyAndJohn 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I never mentioned that.

But it isn't too dissimilar to a drive through.

@TheVampiresWife

God I hope not. What a narrow, fearful life that would be.

Agree.

I really really hope not but people are losing rationality the longer this goes on.

I hope not. Unless you're CEV I find people's attitudes a bit pathetic.

@NannyAndJohn

I really hope so.

Masks and SD during winter, improvements to sick pay, WFH becoming the norm, voluntary isolation if ill...

All very sensible precautions.

But society will try and go back to normal and we will be worse off for it.

How do you feel about things like gigs and nightclubs? Holidays? All the things people do to have fun?

And you do of course realise that social distancing means that many venues cannot operate. If you'd like this over winter - a time when much of the hospitality sector makes the money that sees them over the quieter January-March months - thousands more businesses will go bust, resulting in hundreds of thousands of livelihoods lost.

Not to mention families kept apart over Christmas.

SD isn't just keeping 2m apart in Tesco.

That’s not what I thought you were doing to say - I thought you meant make people feel more conscious of their health and what they can do to make it as strong as possible against diseases by doing things like keeping weight down, exercising and eating more fruit and veg and less very processed foods etc. It seems to be a general theme amongst most people I come across and can’t see any downside to that. I will not be in favour of continued social distancing and frequent antibacterial use post pandemic, but I prob will wear a mask if I have to go out with a cold, as a courtesy to others, and wash my hands when I get into office or home. But in more typical times, germs and bugs are normal and, especially for young children, are a healthy process for developing our immune systems. If the pandemic affects thinking about health I hope it’ll be focusing on the general stress and risk of say inactivity rather than making people think that long term they should chuck on a bottle of antibacterial and avoid giving hugs.

doing things like keeping weight down, exercising and eating more fruit and veg and less very processed foods etc.

That would be good, but there seems to have been less of an interest in that over the pandemic. If anything it’s been the other way - joggers seen as irresponsible spreaders huffing virus over passers-by etc. Bit of a missed opportunity really.

I hope we go back to handwashing. Hand gel was fine for a while but doesn't protect as well as soap and water.
I suspect many people are using it instead of regular hand washing, not as well as.

At a clinical level I think a lot has been learned about certain sorts of disease over the last 18 months. Both the preventative measures and treatments for covid are innovative, in some cases. And I wonder if there might be renewed interest (and more funding) in the medical community around preventions and cures for certain other diseases; HIV, malaria, TB, the heps, and so on.

I hope we'll see a reversion to serious and joined-up thought given to pandemic planning at a national and international level. Because like it or not, these things do happen periodically. It's just nature.

Both in the US (under Trump) and UK (under Cameron and subsequently May) the pandemic planning functions were pretty much wound down and I think this has contributed significantly to how these countries have tackled the situation. (Not that any country has got it 100% right, of course.)

Beyond that, I think a more balanced focus that includes preventative health as well as curative illness management might be helpful. But I also think this is a very complex issue and there isn't one easy answer.

I think kneejerk NPIs like masks and mass quarantining of healthy people will eventually be looked back on like the 21st century equivalent of those medieval plague doctor beak masks. They might work, technically, a bit, almost by accident. But there will be better and more sophisticated ways to handle infectious viruses.

I do worry that health anxiety and OCD may rocket.
Fell out with a friend yesterday as out at a pub and some people came over to say hi and she freaked out was really rude and flounced.

She never used to be like this

I'm

How do you feel about things like gigs and nightclubs? Holidays? All the things people do to have fun?

Fun? We can't have people having fun you know!

We need to get back to some form of exposure to others for our immune system strength. Look at the issues some hospitals are facing currently with an influx of winter illnesses being seen now, double that come winter. I’m worried about myself or my DC catching colds/stomach bugs which wouldn’t ordinarily affect us badly

There has been something wrong with the way we've all been happy to cough and sneeze over each other for years with no real mitigating measures and some people spending months at a time picking everything up under the sun. Before antibiotics we had to treat illness with more respect and we're moving into an era that is largely post-antibiotics for less severe ailments and more about preventative measures, do yes. I think a change of attitude was needed.

50AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii

I think the numbers in A and E are more to do with no one being able to get near a GP, or access them at the right time.

@Paddling654 yes there will be that as well but it’s the actual rise in winter bugs being seen in the summer?

I think it will boil down to people being willing to do the things that are easy for them, but not the ones that are a hassle or carry financial loss for them. Hardly anyone will be willing to inconvenience their life for the sake of others' health long term, but there will be a lot of virtue signallers who will happily gloss over the fact that the measures they are able to keep mean financial ruin for others, but not them.

What they’re starting to realise though, is that these measures are counter productive in other ways.

There are big problems looming next autumn/winter because our flu strategy has been severely impacted by the lockdowns of last winter. There will be much lower levels of natural immunity. It will also be more difficult to predict the strains to target with vaccines. There will be a lot more flu deaths because of this.

Our immune systems are complex things. Keeping them ‘safe’ from all infections isn’t a positive.

X post with Alaska

Fair play if people want to stay at home with a cold. I won’t be. Does anyone actually know people in real life as people are online? Cos I certainly don’t. Our kids have colds 24/7, we are all out living life..

I think the awareness of general hygiene might linger.
The one thing I'd like to see continue is people not going to work when ill. How many times I've had to sit next to someone at work who is coughing, sneezing and feeling unwell but has come to work to be a trouper. Attitudes to sick absence at HR would need to change but overall there would probably be less sickness if those with infections stayed at home instead of struggling in and spreading them.