Do you think this will change how we think about disease long-term?

[GoldenOmber]

One of my colleagues said recently that we shouldn’t be made to go back to the office if on public transport, because even apart from covid rates “there will still be flu and other things.” I’m pretty sure she wasn’t pushing for that pre-covid, when we did have flu and other things. But other people agreed with her so she’s clearly not alone.

So: When covid’s less of a day to day threat, do you think a lot of people will have moved to this idea of illness as something that employers and governments have the duty to protect us from if at all possible, even if it’s about protecting us from feeling shit for a week rather than protecting us from death? Thinking nightclubs and mass gatherings are irresponsible because they could spread flu or RSV? Or even just expecting hand sanitiser stations everywhere, avoiding handshakes, masks for the sneezy?

Or do you think it’s only covid that’s the exception, and we’ll go back to treating other diseases the way we’ve always treated them?

Just curious really. It seems like quite a shift in attitudes if it’s going to stick around.

Possibly. We had one colleague in last week who was huffing and puffing saying she felt so ill (negative PCR). In the end she fell asleep and was sent home by management for coming to work so I’ll because irrespective of covid we didn’t want to feel shit for a week with whatever she had.

I think pre covid in my sector she probably would have been allowed to crack on with the day.

It "feels" to me very much like there is huge push for "a shift in attitudes"

A lot of dystopian literature is going to be written about societies that can't handle any germs, international conflicts betw countries that have high vs. low tolerance for circulating germs.

If I had to bet, I would bet that in 5 years we'll be back to our former level of germ tolerance in UK -- except not for covid. Even though circulating covid will look extremely like flu in impacts at that point. The covid paranoia will persist, anyway.

"Not being allowed to cough & sneeze on each other" makes all of us more vulnerable to germs in general, in long run. Waning immunity and extra vulnerability to germs we haven't seen as a problem ever before, is the next big aspect of the covid crisis to come.

Our kids have colds 24/7, we are all out living life.

I find this comment really irritating. My child ends up in the children's ward, on steroids, with a cold. She isn't particularly vulnerable, either.

@FizziWater

I think the awareness of general hygiene might linger. The one thing I'd like to see continue is people not going to work when ill. How many times I've had to sit next to someone at work who is coughing, sneezing and feeling unwell but has come to work to be a trouper. Attitudes to sick absence at HR would need to change but overall there would probably be less sickness if those with infections stayed at home instead of struggling in and spreading them.

Many people don't go to work when ill to "be a trouper" but because they can't afford to stay home on sick pay or no pay! That is what needs to be addressed before we moan about people coming in when sick.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

How do you feel about things like gigs and nightclubs? Holidays? All the things people do to have fun?

Fun? We can't have people having fun you know!

You're quite right, apologies. I shall wear my hair knickers as well as my hair shirt for the rest of the day in penance.

I agree with hoping that proper sick pay is universal so that people can stay off work when ill. But I have always had 'good' employers with full pay for sickness and there has ber a trouper mentality in all of them.

Im on the fence on this tbh.
I do think that wearing masks if ill in future would be beneficial. and WFH if contagious with anything but well enough to work if WFH is possible in the persons line of work would benefit colleagues.
WFH if possible reduces cars on road has got to be beneficial for environment, as would less face to face meetings with attendees travelling from all over.

I think its all about balance. there is health and environmental benefits from some of the changes covid has brought.

@lljkk this was the point I was trying to make. I stay off work if I’m so ill I’m coughing and sneezing but I wouldn’t for a sore throat or runny nose, I’d never be at work during the winter and my kids would never be at school

We all need exposure to germs, I’m sure I read somewhere that childrens chance of getting leukaemia was higher if not exposed to germs

This is just one source

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/may/21/most-common-childhood-cancer-partly-caused-by-lack-of-infection

I don’t believe that being germ phobic does humans any good. A dettol fanatic friend and her dc are always ill - it may be a coincidence but I doubt it. I was a bit self conscious that I had calpol in my bag today (dd had period pain) - ridiculous, but that is the current climate. It’s anti-social to clear your throat at the moment. I hope it goes completely back to normal.

@GoldenOmber

doing things like keeping weight down, exercising and eating more fruit and veg and less very processed foods etc.

That would be good, but there seems to have been less of an interest in that over the pandemic. If anything it’s been the other way - joggers seen as irresponsible spreaders huffing virus over passers-by etc. Bit of a missed opportunity really.

Yep. Gyms closed, vilify joggers but keep takeaways open. Even though obesity is a risk factor for complications. Madness.

@GoldenOmber

doing things like keeping weight down, exercising and eating more fruit and veg and less very processed foods etc.

That would be good, but there seems to have been less of an interest in that over the pandemic. If anything it’s been the other way - joggers seen as irresponsible spreaders huffing virus over passers-by etc. Bit of a missed opportunity really.

Indeed - because eating better and doing more exercise involves people actually thinking for themselves and making their own choices rather than settling on the comfort blanket of having all the decisions made by the state

I do find that interesting, that there are a ton of things that we know for sure will reduce illnesses and reduce the load on the NHS for more than just covid, like exercise, like reducing air pollution, like taking a serious hammer to poverty and all its subsequent health inequalities. Prevention is better than cure. Boost stat sick pay while we're at it and we could reduce the number of people infected with covid while also working on reducing the chances of them suffering severe illness.

...but there doesn't seem to be a huge public appetite to do those things, not compared to the public appetite for being personally protected from getting an infectious disease in public.

People talk of not going to work if you are feeling ill, but what about holidays? If you have an eye-wateringly expensive, long-awaited trip planned, are you really going to cancel because your dc is running a temperature or coughing and sneezing? Are you hell.

People are all “stay off work” when they will still be paid, but if you were told that you couldn’t proceed with your holiday because one family member wasn’t feeling quite the thing I’m sure you’d change your tune.

Isn't it good to get exposure to germs particularly as a child?