Is my son going to get in all this bloody student debt for nothing?

[Gameofbones]

We are a very low income family. Ds is set to go to university in September. I’m really proud as he is the first one out of my lot to go.

Now I’m seeing headlines suggesting new lockdowns in September.

He has secured the maximum amount of maintenance loan which with course costs is about £18.5k a year.

I can’t believe he is going to get into all this debt if he is going to have to ‘do uni’ from home!

We are so tight for space, not sure how he is going to manage it.

If your dc went to university last year did they get money back. How did it work?

I'm not going into the ins and outs of degree or university snobbery on here - but I will say that I'm a mature student, doing a course I'm absolutely passionate about (and one of the ones allowed to remain on campus when we locked down as it was healthcare related) and last academic year was the most utterly soul sapping demoralising slugfest toward the end of it - the technology for online stuff wasn't amazing, lack of access to the library (although allowed on campus - we basically weren't) and having to do everything via e-books sucked, and it was just grim... and I have no need for the student social life cos I'm an old fart.

I'll also mention that the uni I'm at has a lot of art and media type degrees and signed up for a lot of the planning for this year coming focus groups on student experience, and got in with a lot of them doing these - and they were all finding the lack of being on campus incredibly problematic when it came to things like accessing the uni AV loans service and collaborative projects etc. Likewise software if you're needing anything higher-end and creative... uni had done what they could in terms of things like access to stuff via remote connections but it was all still a pretty bodged together solutions.

I'm hoping things will be a bit better this year - uni are at least planning on running freshers week - but I'm still considering taking a year out as I don't know if I have it in me do to the remote learning slugfest again this year.

@Gameofbones

Just to let you know there are lots of supportive and helpful posts here now, ignore the posters who don't know what they're on about.

I work in media and have been Job hunting lately. Every job I have applied for, senior level media work, has asked for a degree. I have 2 but neither are in media and that doesn’t seem to matter a jot. Just that I have a degree. It does ask for work experience too so I’m not sure if apprenticeships etc are acceptable at a less senior level.

@Gameofbones, congratulations to your son, that's amazing.

I work at a uni (not Rave) and we have been told that the steer for September is that the Dept for Education will not allow us to "limit provision" or the uni experience due to social distancing etc., so our VC has said it's back to on-campus everything, but with online alternative provided for any students who have to self-isolate etc.

Of course, this time last year the DfE pressured unis to describe the upcoming year as a normal on-campus experience too, I think, and then the rug was pulled from under us, something a lot of people don't understand wasn't how unis wanted to handle it. It's very difficult to predict how this year will go.

Your son might want to check out The Student Room for the experiences of others last year, but of course like any online forum it's probably full of moaners to some extent!

@TheDevils I'm not talking about socialising or clubs and societies ( as beneficial as they can be) I'm taking about careers and employability related activities- which certainly did take place last year.

Which are also available to non Uni students - lots of career coaches etc are available at a cost, far cheaper than a Uni course. If you're having to get online/remote support, then going private is just as good as Uni and cheaper. It's not as if Unis were doing careers/employability support in person is it?

@CousinKrispy Of course, this time last year the DfE pressured unis to describe the upcoming year as a normal on-campus experience too, I think, and then the rug was pulled from under us, something a lot of people don't understand wasn't how unis wanted to handle it.

Yet, "some" Unis had already told their staff not to attend campus at this time last year, but still promised "blended learning" on their websites. So, for those unis, they were conning their students. I'm not sure why they told their staff to prepare for WFH if the DfE had issued an instruction for "normality"!

Which are also available to non Uni students - lots of career coaches etc are available at a cost, far cheaper than a Uni course. If you're having to get online/remote support, then going private is just as good as Uni and cheaper. It's not as if Unis were doing careers/employability support in person is it?

Paying for a private careers adviser is, of course, available to anyone but is in no way a substitute for getting a degree and having access to university based careers and employability support.

University careers and employability teams do so much more than offer 1:1 guidance interviews- in fact, that is a relatively small part of what they do. They run a huge amount of projects to help boost employability skills, they provide that link between students and employers and advise academic departments on developing employability content for their courses.
Those working as careers consultants are subject specialists too so students get tailored support.
Yes, this has all been done online this year but that doesn't mean it hasn't been effective. It works well online. In fact, engagement with careers services increased significantly this academic year as people found it more accessible. Student satisfaction in relation to careers support increased too.

Yet, "some" Unis had already told their staff not to attend campus at this time last year, but still promised "blended learning" on their websites. So, for those unis, they were conning their students. I'm not sure why they told their staff to prepare for WFH if the DfE had issued an instruction for "normality"!

One reason is because social distancing meant we couldn't fit all our students in classrooms and lecture theatres.

If it's likely to be an online course and your DS is happy not to live on campus then you can save costs on accommodation.

I don't really see why there should be a reduction in fees - University lecturers are still doing the same (actually more) work. You pay for an education not a social life. Of course it isn't as much fun as in person , but that's true of anything. It's not much fun for the lecturers either, especially since their workload has increased massively for no extra pay (they are now expected to be experts in producing high quality online videos / producing online exams as well as specialists in their field).

Deferring a year is always an option as PP have said - I think realistically we just don't know what's going to happen and I'd mistrust any University promising a 'normal' experience. They did that last year and had to backtrack. I think it's important to go in knowing that online only may be a possibility, and if your DS isn't keen on that idea, maybe defer?.

Remember that this 'debt' doesn't work like other debt. If he doesn't earn enough once leaving uni he will never pay it back and it doesn't effect things like getting a mortgage/credit card.
I took out the maximum amount of money I could borrow from student finance - worked through uni so saved most of it and used it as a house deposit. I'm not earning enough yet to pay it back and probably never will

Bloody hell this thread is bad. Poor OP.

Her son’s got an offer to a vocational course at a specialist training college that’s hugely regarded in the industry he wants to work in.

And there’s a massive snobby pile on from people with limited Google skills and even more limited knowledge of media production.

The very best place for this lad to network is at Ravensbourne. Given he’s the first in his family to go to university I assume he’s not awash with connections in the media world. Going to this particular college will put him in a peer cohort that will support him, it will offer him links to the industry, and it will be set up to support him job hunting.

You don’t get that trying to self-start in the middle of a pandemic.

Hope the OP gets to read the replies from the posters who understand the actual course he’s doing and work in this industry.

@NoSquirrels

Bloody hell this thread is bad. Poor OP.

Her son’s got an offer to a vocational course at a specialist training college that’s hugely regarded in the industry he wants to work in.

And there’s a massive snobby pile on from people with limited Google skills and even more limited knowledge of media production.

The very best place for this lad to network is at Ravensbourne. Given he’s the first in his family to go to university I assume he’s not awash with connections in the media world. Going to this particular college will put him in a peer cohort that will support him, it will offer him links to the industry, and it will be set up to support him job hunting.

You don’t get that trying to self-start in the middle of a pandemic.

Hope the OP gets to read the replies from the posters who understand the actual course he’s doing and work in this industry.

The degree /uni /A level threads on Mumsnet are some of the most ill informed, snobby and just plain nasty on the whole site.

I hope OP manages to sift through the non snobby posts on here- talk about pissing on someone's bonfire.

OP, if you're still reading, you should be proud! I work in media and every single job I've ever had they ask about my degree. Please ignore the people on here who have no idea what they're on about- frankly they all sound like my dad 20 years ago who told me I wasn't doing a real degree and made me cry, out of touch!

It's also worth noting that plenty of people go to Uni for the experiences you get outside of the degree itself, I'm not sure you can unilaterally call the entire thing a waste.

The degree /uni /A level threads on Mumsnet are some of the most ill informed, snobby and just plain nasty on the whole site.

they really are!

And for what it's worth I absolutely do not believe everyone who says they are a hr director/work in uni admissions.

We must have every uni admissions person in the country in mumsnet if that was the case. Some people just have a really intense need to push their Bristol/Oxbridge big firms agenda and it's weird

@Bryonyshcmyony

And for what it's worth I absolutely do not believe everyone who says they are a hr director/work in uni admissions.

We must have every uni admissions person in the country in mumsnet if that was the case. Some people just have a really intense need to push their Bristol/Oxbridge big firms agenda and it's weird

There are so many enthusiasts for Durham too, I always feel like that's a bit disproportionate, you hardly ever see anything negative. It's a nice top 10 uni but Imperial / Warwick / Bath etc get nothing like the same kind of worship. (I have occasionally wondered whether it's to do with parents disappointed with an Oxbridge rejection who are trying to convince themselves that Durham is just as good, if not better 🤭)

and this is even the Coronavirus board, so they infiltrate everywhere!

I remember getting absolutely slated on here years ago under a different name because dd was delighted to have got into Bath. I had one poster going on and on about Durham, posting pics of league tables and employment stats. It didn't even do dds course 🤣

And for what it's worth I absolutely do not believe everyone who says they are a hr director/work in uni admissions

If they did, they wouldn't talk rubbish on here. I am constantly hearing that law firms only look at Russell Group/Oxbridge degrees in "sensible" subjects. Stuff and nonsense, and has been for years. The top law firms are very hot on diversity and try very hard to look beyond the obvious sources of candidates.

And someone studying media probably doesn't want a place on a traditional "Milkround" type scheme anyway. Also those who think media is a "mickey mouse" degree don't know what it involves.

@Bryonyshcmyony

I remember getting absolutely slated on here years ago under a different name because dd was delighted to have got into Bath. I had one poster going on and on about Durham, posting pics of league tables and employment stats. It didn't even do dds course 🤣

I can imagine that!

A working class kid succeeds...and his success is rubbished by loads of poshy mumsnetters many of whom are most likely defending their own privilege and the fact they've forked out dosh for their kids' private education and a ticket to certain unis.
This 18 year old has clearly picked a specialist institution well regarded for a specialist degree....good luck to him, his achievement is so much greater for having been hard won...

A working class kid succeeds...and his success is rubbished by loads of poshy mumsnetters many of whom are most likely defending their own privilege and the fact they've forked out dosh for their kids' private education and a ticket to certain unis

This.

To OP's son: Sock it to 'em, kidder

I couldn’t agree with @valnevavaxx more. I’m always asked about my degree… and all of my colleagues have one too. To do production, uni would be a great place to network and learn.
You must be so proud of him!

Christ. He shouldn't get in that debt to study media. No one in the industry rates media studies degrees. What does he actually want to do with it. What university is it?

Sorry but I agree.

And it's not lots of poshy MNetters being nasty, it's people voicing their opinions based on experience. As a WC person, I'm really annoyed that other WC people have been mislead into believing that all universities and all courses are worth getting into a substantial amount of debt for.

@Cam2020

Christ. He shouldn't get in that debt to study media. No one in the industry rates media studies degrees. What does he actually want to do with it. What university is it?

Sorry but I agree.

And it's not lots of poshy MNetters being nasty, it's people voicing their opinions based on experience. As a WC person, I'm really annoyed that other WC people have been mislead into believing that all universities and all courses are worth getting into a substantial amount of debt for.

Have you RTFT?

It's not a media studies degree. It's a media production degree from a specialist university that's respected in the field.

And there absolutely are some nasty, snobby attitudes on this thread.