Is my son going to get in all this bloody student debt for nothing?

[Gameofbones]

We are a very low income family. Ds is set to go to university in September. I’m really proud as he is the first one out of my lot to go.

Now I’m seeing headlines suggesting new lockdowns in September.

He has secured the maximum amount of maintenance loan which with course costs is about £18.5k a year.

I can’t believe he is going to get into all this debt if he is going to have to ‘do uni’ from home!

We are so tight for space, not sure how he is going to manage it.

If your dc went to university last year did they get money back. How did it work?

My ds has just graduated and between March 2020 and the end of his course he had 10 weeks of on campus learning.
His experience wasn’t great. He expected that year 2 exams would be chaotic given the lack of time for the uni to prepare, but year 3 was a complete farce: the exam portal crashed three times during his online examinations, assessment switched from exam to essay, one exam had to be completely cancelled as not all students could access the paper - students sitting that exam had no idea what was going on and the university was very slow to respond.
University is Warwick btw.
In your ds’s position I would be tempted to defer for a year.

Oh god! Don't step away!

The film and TV industry is massive and Rave is very well thought of

@Gameofbones I think you have been given a hard time on here. University isn't just about ending up with the all hallowed high salary. If it goes well it can be a time of immense personal growth too. You learn many things from going and meet all kinds of new people. It broadens your horizons and you learn how to find information and think critically (before anyone jumps on me I'm not saying only graduates can do this but it is a route that is particularly likely to develop these skills). If you are the first in your family to go it's an exciting new direction too. No learning is ever wasted if you look at it this way. You and your son should be proud and I hope it all works out well.

Sorry OP, I should’ve said along with my post that he may already have looked into it and that’s why he’s chosen Ravensbourne. I just wanted to make the point that all unis want students so will all try to sell themselves. And that if he wants to defer, he shouldn’t have a problem doing this because there will still be a uni out there that wants to snap him up in a years time.

Ignore the overall uni ranking- Ravensbournre is very very highly regarded in the media industry.

Put it this way, when we hire, if applicants have a degree from Ravensbourne they would get the job over someone who doesn't.

Ravensbourne has so many industry connections, it is a fantastic industry specific university.

@Gameofbones

I’m actually stepping away from this thread.

I’ve worked since I was 16, im a single parent and i don’t get any help from his dad. I thought he was doing really well and was set to achieve big. Obviously not.

Thanks for all your advice. And that isn’t me being stroppy. I’ll get him to look into it more.

You should be very proud of him and he has done well However, I think you both need to be realistic about how valuable purely in terms of career this degree will be. He may well achieve great things but this degree may well just lead to debt and nothing more

I know a lot of people who work in TV and media and almost all of them have bog standard academic degrees from more traditional universities.

This is true but the BBC at least is trying to move away from this to recruit from a more diverse group of people. You don't need a degree to work in broadcasting these days but if he wants the uni experience, why not? At the same time he needs to be getting himself odd bits of work experience / shadowing and then running jobs. Almost everyone in tv starts as a runner!

If you're still reading, OP - he won't have to do uni from your home, even if it's online. So don't worry about the lack of space.

Student halls have stayed open during the lockdowns. In the first lockdown, most students did go home. This year, a lot stayed in their university accommodation.

This spring, I around 2/3 of students returned to their university accommodation despite the government saying that only practical courses should travel. I'm a lecturer and got the impression that most students stayed during the November lockdown too. Several students have mentioned being glad they've been able to keep living some form of student life, rather than being back in their childhood bedrooms.

Also, please do be proud of your son, OP! He may want to look more into career options if he didn't look much before applying. Even after looking, he may decide this course is right for him. I can't comment on this course specifically, but Mumsnetters' views on what courses are worth doing aren't always based on fact.

OP while some of these posts may sound harsh I think the intention behind them is good.
Going to university is expensive. You have to be relatively sure you’re getting a return on your investment. For many people and many careers there are far better ways of achieving your goals.
I went to University and I use my degree (law). I would only encourage my children to go to University if they were pretty clear of their career path and knew exactly what they needed to do to achieve their aims. So this isn’t to piss on your chips at all, it’s just to make sure your DS knows exactly what he’s doing. If he’s clear in his pathway then that’s brilliant.
Congratulations to him (and you!) by the way.

I'm a
Manager in the NHS and even people applying for band 2 admin roles seem to have degrees these days as generationally more people seem to have gone to university but it doesn't mean they are more likely or not to get the job as a Band 2 admin job doesn't require a degree however it acts as a gauge for a general level in HR's eyes

You should be really proud of both your achievements @Gameofbones some teens are given bad advice when they are talking about future options. With so many options available it can be hard keeping up on a local nevermind national basis.

Don't take it to heart about the uni's performance. The performance of the uni isn't a reflection of their future attendees but of their previous performance as educators.

If he defers or if he can even change the course he's signed up for now, what other interests does he have other than media? Perhaps he could look at those courses.

OP, you should be so so proud of your Son. You've obviously done a fab job and he sounds great. Please, don't worry about the loans. Support him to go Ravensbourne and do the Media course he wants to do. And celebrate both of your achievements!! (The loans are more like a graduate tax than debt. You only start paying back once you earn over a certain amount, which is quite high, then it's deducted from your wage automatically, and it's not very much per month. I think after 30 years, if it isn't paid off, they just write it off completely. It's not going to be a burden.) And whatever he studies, just going to Uni will be a great experience for him and a good stepping stone towards the future. So, do encourage him and be proud of him and yourself!

This is for everyone sneering at a Media degree: www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jun/13/no-lights-no-camera-uk-tv-producers-face-equipment-shortage

BTW I agree with PP saying this is a different kettle of fish from the route through uni to a career that many MNers will be familiar with. If he wants to work in tv he could do much worse than basing himself in London for 3 years and learning about all aspects of the industry, gaining technical skills while building a portfolio and starting to find odd bits of work. I honestly wouldn't worry about the money, it's really not about that. Good luck with his results, hope he gets that place and does great at Ravensbourne, I'm sure he will. Tell him to make the most of every opportunity!

The fact he's chosen a specialist university to do his media degree at would indicate to me that he's thought this through and researched thoroughly.

@hangonamo

I know a lot of people who work in TV and media and almost all of them have bog standard academic degrees from more traditional universities.

This is true but the BBC at least is trying to move away from this to recruit from a more diverse group of people. You don't need a degree to work in broadcasting these days but if he wants the uni experience, why not? At the same time he needs to be getting himself odd bits of work experience / shadowing and then running jobs. Almost everyone in tv starts as a runner!

The only way they're going to get a more 'diverse group of people' is when jobs and internships discount unpaid experience. How are you supposed to compete when you need your job to pay bills but your competitors don't?

OP you should be proud of your son securing a uni place - but at the same time realise that a degree doesn't automatically equal a good job like in the old days. It's just not the money (if he never earns above the threshold he won't pay it back anyway) - but almost half the UK population of school leavers get a degree and his chosen field is very competitive. So if he doesn't get a job in it straight away he'll just be yet another graduate and from a not very well regarded university at that (although it has a great reputation for its specific field).

If money is an issue (e.g. I know people who need to earn to support their younger siblings) then please reconsider. Otherwise there's no harm in letting him do it but manage your expectations. I really really hope he proves all of us naysayers wrong and we see his name in the credits of a big film ;)

Honestly going to London to study will be amazing for him wanting to get into media there really are all the opportunities there.

Also to add - yes, Ravensbourne is excellent for its chosen field, they are well ahead in terms of technical exposure (for their students) and also their connections in the industry which enable students to get placements

@Gameofbones Hi OP, I just had to comment on this. I studied at ravensbourne too a few years ago (editing and posh production), I ended up doing “distance learning” because I got a job as a runner at a post house. I ended up dropping out 2 months before the end of my third year due to personal issues (miscarriage, DV etc). I had a very successful career with zero help from the almost degree, no one ever asked me what or where I studied. I would strongly advise your son to approach some companies to look for runner jobs. Depending on what area he wants to work in (preproduction, production or post production), he can start in one and can change to another area if he doesn’t like it. Please please do not waste money on this degree! Ravensbourne sell themselves as the be all and end all of media and art degrees and it’s not the case at all. I found them very unsupportive. I no longer work in the industry since having my DD, however my husband does (in postproduction), if you’d like to private message me I could definitely recommend a few places to apply to, or pass on some contact details just to give your son an idea of what other routes are available to them. Media is a very social industry so even if he doesn’t go to uni he will have a very fun time with people he works with!

And that 'media studies' as an academic degree is very different from media production.. which is what Ravensbourne offers

[quote Gameofbones]@sskanky wow talk about piss on my chips. I was feeling pretty proud of him!

The BBC production apprenticeship is closed.[/quote]
Ignore them. My son did a business studies degree, plenty laughed and saiid it was a Mickey Mouse degree. He went into a low paid graduate scheme job for a few years and used that experience to get into the civil service where he's earning a very good wage.

My dh is a journalist. The best person he hired was someone who walked in off the street ( practically) but who wanted to do the job with a passion and who could think on her feet.

@Blossomtoes

It’s not degree snobbery, it’s reality. Not all degrees carry the same weight in the employment market. Graduates are ten a penny now and employers are more choosy than ever because they can afford to be.

This. A media degree from a 'not so great' uni isn't worth getting into so much debt for. I admire his ambition but an apprenticeship would better serve his pocket and career prospects.

I work with a lot of creatives who turn to Ravensbourne whenever they are recruiting, I think is is very well connected to the industry. If my child was going there to study something they were enthusiastic about I would be bloody delighted!!

It’s ok telling this young lad to get jobs running and being a dogsbody but where does it say he’s living in London with his mum? Being a student is the only time you will get good priced accommodation living with people in the same boat, he can’t just rock up amd get a house share earning pennies of course he has to go to uni first.