Endangering the World?

[sadperson16]

Really, no wonder people have MH issues with nonsense lik ethis about.

And of course England (not Wales or Scotland obviously) has soooo many flaws. Dreadful place. Worst in the world in fact.

@SpringRainbow

I am interested in the fact that people are saying that we are testing more than any other country. Is this really true?

Are other countries not testing as much as we are? Do other countries not encourage asymptomatic testing? How easy is it to get a test in other countries?

Most other countries are not using the lateral flow tests becuase they are very inaccurate due to the high rate of false negative readings www.medicaldevice-network.com/features/asymptomatic-lateral-flow-testing/

@QueenStromba

The issue is that we're doing exactly what a scientist would do in the lab if they wanted to create a vaccine resistant strain. High numbers of cases plus a large number of people with partial immunity is a recipe for disaster.

This.

Nobody wants to talk about Florida because they are having a lot of success with their approach

Over 8000 new cases a day currently, 71 deaths yesterday? If that's a lot of success, I hate to think what a little success would look like.

Florida's approach summarised here
www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/11/25/florida-gov-extends-ban-on-cities-imposing-their-own-masks-mandates-critic-calls-move-a-killing-spree/amp/

I don’t think India’s decision about holding mass gatherings for political rallies or religious festivals was a good idea and my colleagues in India don’t think it was a good idea either.

U.K. have much less constrained choices - in that we have more resources to spend per capita than India; smaller, easier to reach population. We also have the benefit of hindsight to see what led to the Kent and Delta variants. We can CHOOSE to reduce the risk of it happening much more easily than India. It is reckless.

I am on a Disney group and the pictures from Magic Kingdom (where tourism comes from all over the States) shows it to be busy and crammed and pre COVID levels. It will then take it cases and spread it around

It is entirely fair to say that the West is selling the rest of the world down the river. They have the vaccines so that most are on 50% now and probably will get a booster shots in for the end of the year. Having done so it is happy to open up and go back to normal

Oh come off it....poor kids, Global warming, we are killing the world.

I live in a highly populated area on the NW. I know one person who has been ill.

@Indigopearl “ Most other countries are not using the lateral flow tests becuase they are very inaccurate due to the high rate of false negative readings
www.medicaldevice-network.com/features/asymptomatic-lateral-flow-testing/”

I know other countries don’t use LFTs, but I am wondering if other countries test as much as us, including asymptomatic testing.

There is no reason really why PCRs couldn’t be used for widespread testing if a country decided to.

Just wondering if we really were testing more than other countries.

Currently in Paris. There are tents outside every other pharmacy, and there are many pharmacies, where you can get a covid test in 15 minutes, administered by technician and recorded centrally. Free if you're French, 25 Eur if not. Similar system is in place in Germany. Who says UK tests way more than elsewhere? Source pls.

www.statista.com/statistics/1104645/covid19-testing-rate-select-countries-worldwide/

ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-total-tests-for-covid-19

Although the latter does have it all.

We do a lot more testing at the moment with surge testing and use of LFT (the case numbers we have do include LFT)

Over 8000 new cases a day currently, 71 deaths yesterday? If that's a lot of success, I hate to think what a little success would look like.

In a population of over 21 million. Hardly the apocalypse is it?

@FromEden

Over 8000 new cases a day currently, 71 deaths yesterday? If that's a lot of success, I hate to think what a little success would look like.

In a population of over 21 million. Hardly the apocalypse is it?

It is equivalent to 230 deaths a day in a population the size of the UKs at they are only in the early stages of their delta wave.

I think a bigger threat to the lives of people in mostly-unvaccinated countries is the fact they don’t have enough vaccines rather than whatever the UK does with nightclubs, really.

“Oh dear, only 1% of your population have been vaccinated, your country can’t afford lockdowns and your health system won’t cope with the incoming delta wave without mass death and devastation? Don’t worry, we’ll come to your rescue!… by keeping one-way systems in our local Tesco and demanding all our nightclubs stay closed. No no no, we care deeply about vaccine inequity, that’s why we’re going to campaign fo vaccinate all our healthy teenagers before your elderly and vulnerable and healthcare workers. It’s our moral responsibility to the world!”

I find it hilarious that MNers think covid in Britain is SO IMPORTANT.
Covid is all over, spreading at diverse rates, huge susceptible populations still to hit. > 50% of humanity has weak social distancing rules because frankly, they can't afford to pay people to stay home. And few vaccinations due to vaccine hoarding by the rich countries (where the vaccine hesitant are). Anyway, neither prior infection nor vaccines "stop you spreading it" is the MN mantra, so there is no way to stop this thing, seemingly, anywhere, anywhen.

Yet what happens in Britain, 0.8% of global population with much tighter surveillance & controls than most places, is alleged to be really important to covid variant development.

yeah sure. Whatevs.

The probability of producing a vaccine resistant variant is far higher in a population that is 50% vaccinated with a high infection rate than a population that is 10% vaccinated at high infection rate.

@FromEden

Over 8000 new cases a day currently, 71 deaths yesterday? If that's a lot of success, I hate to think what a little success would look like.

In a population of over 21 million. Hardly the apocalypse is it?

That's in the context of Florida's approach being described as a success. If their criterion for success is "not the apocalypse" maybe they need to rethink their standards?

Please, a polite request, does anybody know what the death figures would have been without Covid?
I have no idea ( and I'm sure others feel the same) of the actual risk involved.

People seem to have forgotten that we've already created one Variant (Alpha) that's caused global death and destruction.

@sadperson16

Please, a polite request, does anybody know what the death figures would have been without Covid? I have no idea ( and I'm sure others feel the same) of the actual risk involved.

You can see excess mortality here:

app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiYmUwNmFhMjYtNGZhYS00NDk2LWFlMTAtOTg0OGNhNmFiNGM0IiwidCI6ImVlNGUxNDk5LTRhMzUtNGIyZS1hZDQ3LTVmM2NmOWRlODY2NiIsImMiOjh9

For the last few months we’ve had fewer deaths than expected.

I find it hilarious that MNers think covid in Britain is SO IMPORTANT.

We've had a year and a half of exceptionalism: 'Oh, we couldn't possibly shut our borders! We - unlike those little backwaters, Australia and New Zealand and Taiwan - could never have aimed to suppress the virus, as we are not an island/we are densely populated/we are an important global travel hub!'

Recklessly cooking up a new variant, that may become vaccine resistant effects the rest of the world.

From CNN:

Calling it a "dangerous and unethical experiment," more than 4,000 scientists, doctors, nurses and other professionals signed a letter published Wednesday condemning the British government's plans to drop most pandemic control measures in England on Monday, July 19.

"We believe this decision is dangerous and premature," they wrote in a letter to the Lancet medical journal.

"The UK Government must reconsider its current strategy and take urgent steps to protect the public, including children. We believe the government is embarking on a dangerous and unethical experiment, and we call on it to pause plans to abandon mitigations on July 19, 2021," they added.

"Instead, the government should delay complete re-opening until everyone, including adolescents, have been offered vaccination and uptake is high, and until mitigation measures, especially adequate ventilation and spacing are in place in schools. Until then, public health measures must include those called for by WHO (universal mask wearing in indoor spaces, even for those vaccinated)," they wrote.

The probability of producing a vaccine resistant variant is far higher in a population that is 50% vaccinated with a high infection rate than a population that is 10% vaccinated at high infection rate.

Considering their vaccination rates, USA with resident population 330 million must have 5x the risk of UK in variant production then. USA started on this trajectory ~4 weeks ago. Israel, UAE, Chile, Hungary, Spain at about same point...

Shortly to be followed by Brazil (4x), Mexico (2x) & South Africa?

Thank you very much @bumbleymummy.

@lljkk

The probability of producing a vaccine resistant variant is far higher in a population that is 50% vaccinated with a high infection rate than a population that is 10% vaccinated at high infection rate.

Considering their vaccination rates, USA with resident population 330 million must have 5x the risk of UK in variant production then. USA started on this trajectory ~4 weeks ago. Israel, UAE, Chile, Hungary, Spain at about same point...

Shortly to be followed by Brazil (4x), Mexico (2x) & South Africa?

Maybe so but it isn't a competition to see who can produce it the first.