[England] People ‘expected’ to wear face masks in enclosed public spaces after 19 July

[DumplingsAndStew]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/face-mask-nadhim-zahawi-covid-b1882018.html

New guidance will be issued by the government telling the public they are “expected” to wearface coveringsin indoor enclosed places, the vaccines minister has said.

Nadhim Zahawialso said he was “confident” the government would ease almost all legal restrictions on 19 July — despite surging cases of the virus and concerns expressed by scientists.

Speaking onSky News, he said: “It’s important we remain cautious and careful. The guidelines that we’ll set out tomorrow will demonstrate that, including guidelines that people are expected to wear a mask in indoor enclosed spaces, and of course remain vigilant.”

While the guidance will not be legally binding, his remarks appear to be a shift in stance fromBoris Johnson’s comments just last week, whosaid people “might choose” to follow the guidancein areas where cases are on the rise and in enclosed spaces, such as public transport at peak hours.

@Wanttocry

Is it because they wouldn’t get votes to renew legislation?

I’ve lost track of what does and doesn’t need voting for. But Labour aren’t going to vote against keeping masks, they’ve made their position clear the last few days that masks should stay, so I think they’d have the votes. It might be more that it would be seen as an embarrassingly large rebellion of Tory MPs voting against the government.

I think you're right there.

He doesn't want to upset his ERG backbenchers.

@Wanttocry

Is it because they wouldn’t get votes to renew legislation?

I’ve lost track of what does and doesn’t need voting for. But Labour aren’t going to vote against keeping masks, they’ve made their position clear the last few days that masks should stay, so I think they’d have the votes. It might be more that it would be seen as an embarrassingly large rebellion of Tory MPs voting against the government.

Yes I think this is fair assessment.

I wonder if they find that rates keep going up, they will blame the people not wearing masks (even if they are expected to wear them) and then make them mandatory again

[quote Againstmachine]*@ilovesooty it is the terrified who are driving this mask pish.

Yep saying they won't use places that don't enforce masks whilst they haven't been supporting this businesses in any way unlike us who are actually already out there.

They can say what they want in opinion polls, but people will vote with their cash and that will see what people really want.[/quote]
Again, it doesn't necessarily follow that all of us who intend to continue wearing a mask in public indoor spaces have said they won't use businesses that don't enforce mask wearing. Or that they aren't actually out there.

@Wanttocry

Is it because they wouldn’t get votes to renew legislation?

I’ve lost track of what does and doesn’t need voting for. But Labour aren’t going to vote against keeping masks, they’ve made their position clear the last few days that masks should stay, so I think they’d have the votes. It might be more that it would be seen as an embarrassingly large rebellion of Tory MPs voting against the government.

I’ve lost track too but I do wonder how Cons MPs would vote

I thought support wouldn’t be there

We will just avoid indoor places as i suspect many won’t bother as it’s not law. Not worth the risk for non essential visits.

@Deliaskis

I also think it gives individual businesses the freedom to make their own requests of their customers....I would imagine many shops for example will keep asking customers to wear masks.

It will help with hospitality though.... sitting eating a meal and laughing and drinking with no mask then having to put one on for the 11 seconds it takes to walk to the bathroom is a bit silly and everybody knows it.

Oh I agree , it’s like I’m sat in a office not social distance but I have to wear a mask to walk to the photocopier . I’ve already started pulling it under my nose now when I have to wear it . I can’t be arsed with these silly rules any longer .

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

We will just avoid indoor places as i suspect many won’t bother as it’s not law. Not worth the risk for non essential visits.

There you have it.

Avoiding places because of fear.

But that doesn't impact you in any shape or form apart from using it to moan.

I am out and about and I wear a mask. I will continue to be out and about and I will continue to wear a mask. I have too many plans that I don't want scuppered by being unwell. (Although obviously it's going to come in through the front door via school but I can't do anything about that).

Compulsory masks in certain high risk situations is sensible. Govt could come up with guidelines. High risk might be:

Hospitals, enclosed spaces with poor ventilation and high density of people - eg public transport.

You can make some exemption for places which are non essential and easily avoided eg stadiums, nightclubs.

I’m guessing most people would not like it if their surgeon didn’t wear a mask during major operation or healthcare workers treating patients on high dose immunosuppressants or chemo.

I think masks are still required in hospital/medical settings.

Don't care about masks at 99% of indoor places.

Am interested to hear who is planning or will attend nightclubs, birthday parties, religious services, choir practice, smoking clubs, popular restaurants, pubs, indoor sport fixtures, indoor music performances, use crowded public transport --

I did an indoor activity with (only) 2 adults yesterday. They wore masks the whole time, I wore my mask a little. They are planning a big birthday party in the autumn - I bet no one will wear masks there.

After Boris announced all restrictions were to go on the 19th an extremely cynical colleague said this was all a govt ploy to placate us all while the Euros / Wimbledon were taking place.

He said from the 5th July expect lots of media coverage re case numbers rising and an anti stance to opening up on the 19th.

Then from the 12th onwards Boris ‘alas, alack, backtrack, data data data’ - 19th cancelled or not all restrictions removed.

He actually said at the time the Govt had no intention of total freedom, it was just so there wouldn’t be too much upset with the Euro crowds & dignitaries and Wimbledon

@MarshaBradyo extending the restrictions in June passed 461- 60 (49 Tories, 6 Labour, 5 DUP) so I don’t think there’s any real concern a new extension wouldn’t pass, just that that 49 might get higher.

@TheRealMrsGrissom

After Boris announced all restrictions were to go on the 19th an extremely cynical colleague said this was all a govt ploy to placate us all while the Euros / Wimbledon were taking place.

He said from the 5th July expect lots of media coverage re case numbers rising and an anti stance to opening up on the 19th.

Then from the 12th onwards Boris ‘alas, alack, backtrack, data data data’ - 19th cancelled or not all restrictions removed.

He actually said at the time the Govt had no intention of total freedom, it was just so there wouldn’t be too much upset with the Euro crowds & dignitaries and Wimbledon

Wouldn’t be that surprising, except for the level of forward thinking it would have involved. Seems a bit beyond this government.

[quote WouldBeGood]@ilovesooty it is the terrified who are driving this mask pish.

Dig a little and it turns out it’s mostly fear, not altruism[/quote]
@HesterShaw1

But what on earth is this doing to your immune system? People need regular exposure to "germs" (for want of a better word).

Worry not. I get you are terrified about the impact on the immune system, but no need to be terrified. You can still access germs in those places you name such as "outside on beaches, on cliff paths and on uncrowded streets" where there's never once been an expectation to wear a mask or other face covering.

I understand you worry that wearing a mask will have a detrimental effect on your immune system, but don't avoid the situations you're being asked to wear a mask in, that's just giving in to the fear and hysteria.

[quote Wanttocry]@MarshaBradyo extending the restrictions in June passed 461- 60 (49 Tories, 6 Labour, 5 DUP) so I don’t think there’s any real concern a new extension wouldn’t pass, just that that 49 might get higher.[/quote]
It depends if people feel the need is greater atm or listen to Chris Whitty who did say ok to release

Why do you think it would increase as proportion of vaccination increases?

Especially as CMO backs it

Also are you just talking about masks or all restrictions?

@Whichjab

But not legally enforceable, only encouraged. So they know that masks should be worn but they are too spineless to do what is needed.

Exactly decriminalisation and pandering to Covidiots as per expected incompetent grossly negligent corrupt gaslighting clown government. Only listening to big money donors for personal gain and not scientists. Perhaps they should have masked and maskless carriages on trains and different floors of double decker buses so the unmasked can enjoy each other’s company within spitting distance while those who have a civic duty of care can enjoy mutual protection in their space. Same for shop keepers to have masked and maskless shopping hours or days etc depending on demand.

There was an article by Laura Dodsworth (I know some on this board sneer at the mere mention of her name) in the Telegraph (ditto) a couple of days ago. She has put it into words very well. We are being nudged like mad.

www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/mind/will-nudge-unit-pulling-strings-freedom-day/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-onward-journey

Apologies, I didn't mean to quote WouldBeGood's pish as part of that comment.

Exactly decriminalisation and pandering to Covidiots as per expected incompetent grossly negligent corrupt gaslighting clown government. Only listening to big money donors for personal gain and not scientists. Perhaps they should have masked and maskless carriages on trains and different floors of double decker buses so the unmasked can enjoy each other’s company within spitting distance while those who have a civic duty of care can enjoy mutual protection in their space. Same for shop keepers to have masked and maskless shopping hours or days etc depending on demand.

Oh excellent! More divisiveness - marvellous idea. Perhaps they ought to be name the Moral and the Immoral carriages. Just so we're all really clear. The Immoral can therefore spit, cough and sneeze over one another to their heart's content. The Moral won't be tainted by their impurity.

Worry not. I get you are terrified about the impact on the immune system, but no need to be terrified. You can still access germs in those places you name such as "outside on beaches, on cliff paths and on uncrowded streets" where there's never once been an expectation to wear a mask or other face covering.

You really are silly.

I won't be wearing one, but I also won't be crowding upto people, I don't use public transport, generally shop online anyway. I'm fed up, I've been wearing one at work for months. No one close to me has been poorly, we've all exercised caution and I've stuck to the rules by the most part. I'm ready to get back to normal and stop losing money hand over fist at my businesses

@TheRealMrsGrissom

After Boris announced all restrictions were to go on the 19th an extremely cynical colleague said this was all a govt ploy to placate us all while the Euros / Wimbledon were taking place.

He said from the 5th July expect lots of media coverage re case numbers rising and an anti stance to opening up on the 19th.

Then from the 12th onwards Boris ‘alas, alack, backtrack, data data data’ - 19th cancelled or not all restrictions removed.

He actually said at the time the Govt had no intention of total freedom, it was just so there wouldn’t be too much upset with the Euro crowds & dignitaries and Wimbledon

I suspected something to do with the sport crowds but I don't think he had reckoned on the football crowds being quite wild and so near the 12th, I imagine this was sort of planned not expecting we would get to the final, as it is papers and news will be full of it tomorrow when he has to make the announcement and it will be a bit odd to say be careful when Wembley has gone wild the day before.

Oh no more covid. I clicked thinking it was about football , oh well. Covid, covid covid