[England] People ‘expected’ to wear face masks in enclosed public spaces after 19 July

[DumplingsAndStew]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/face-mask-nadhim-zahawi-covid-b1882018.html

New guidance will be issued by the government telling the public they are “expected” to wearface coveringsin indoor enclosed places, the vaccines minister has said.

Nadhim Zahawialso said he was “confident” the government would ease almost all legal restrictions on 19 July — despite surging cases of the virus and concerns expressed by scientists.

Speaking onSky News, he said: “It’s important we remain cautious and careful. The guidelines that we’ll set out tomorrow will demonstrate that, including guidelines that people are expected to wear a mask in indoor enclosed spaces, and of course remain vigilant.”

While the guidance will not be legally binding, his remarks appear to be a shift in stance fromBoris Johnson’s comments just last week, whosaid people “might choose” to follow the guidancein areas where cases are on the rise and in enclosed spaces, such as public transport at peak hours.

They bumbled on about masks not being needed in the very beginning, remember! Then they decided that actually, yes, they were rather important in the fight against spread, now they’re spreading confusing advice again.

I’m happy to wear one and I’ll continue to do so, indoors especially and on public transport.

@LightAsTheBreeze

I won't be wearing one in shops as people have a choice to go in a shop but I will wear one in the dentist or other medical waiting room and hairdressers if the hairdresser is wearing one herself, I don't use public transport

Staff working in the shops don't have a choice though? What about them?

@Deliaskis I imagine there's lots of small business owners in this situation.

I know the lovely owner of a restaurant near us went down with covid over a year ago, had a terrible time of it including long covid that she's not quite over yet, fought to bring her business back from the brink several times which was terrifically stressful what with all the fart arsing around with furloughs, lockdowns and fuck knows what but she's kept going.

Understandably she really really doesn't want to get covid again, despite being under 50 and double vaxed, but she also doesn't want to lose trade by requiring masks as long as fuckwits can argue with her staff about them.

She's had a truly awful time and all of this uncertainty is just making things worse for her. It's not right at all.

@TheVampiresWife

How can nightclubs reopen with an expectation to wear masks, though? Also gigs - hundreds of people crushed into sweaty venues but if they're wearing masks that's okay? None of it makes sense.

I think it will be due to the venue?

It’s not legally required

But no idea anymore

Removing the legal requirement but saying “we still expect you to do it” is such a cop out and an attempt to avoid criticism from people on both sides

This. Yet another way to create division. The venom and vitriol from both 'sides' will get even worse and stuck in the middle are those unable to wear masks.

Thank god England is seeing sense. Only a fuckwit would stop wearing a mask at this point (unless exempt of course).

I will probably work on a situation by situation policy. Walking around my covered shopping centre? No. Sat in the hairdresser's? Possibly. I see vulnerable people I will still offer to wear one when in their house. I won't, as someone said, wear one to nip from my table to the toilet in Costa.

@AfternoonToffee

I will probably work on a situation by situation policy. Walking around my covered shopping centre? No. Sat in the hairdresser's? Possibly. I see vulnerable people I will still offer to wear one when in their house. I won't, as someone said, wear one to nip from my table to the toilet in Costa.

I reckon a lot of places will still ask you to do this, though. Would you refuse?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-40ac92b1-1750-4e86-9936-2cda6b0acb3f

Article from BBC explaining why we shouldn’t give up all measures as no one mitigation measure is perfect but if all are used then it helps. I’m a teacher so won’t have the option of ‘personal responsibility’ at work but I will continue to wear masks in other indoor spaces.

@Unescorted

How can employers comply with the Health & Safety at Work Act (1974) obligation to provide appropriate protective equipment and safe working environment impact if they allow non masked shoppers into their premises? Smoking was banned indoors to protect bar staff and co- workers so there is precedent. If you catch Covid can you sue your employer?

Legal minefield, that one.

First off, I would imagine that for a situation to be relevant to that act the person coming into the shop would actually have to have covid to represent an identifiable risk to the worker(s).

A shopper not wearing a mask who doesn't have covid represents no threat in that context.

So you'd be legislating around people's fear, as opposed to actual evidence of harm.

Smoking is different. Every lit cigarette represents a risk -- to the people around the smoker, not to mention the smoker themselves. A mask, or the lack of one, does not represent a risk. The risk isn't the masks, it's the covid.

Besides, the H&SAWA was passed in 1974 and smoking wasn't banned indoors until 2006 (Scotland) and 2007 (the rest of the UK) so it wasn't exactly in with a bullet.

This government reminds me of those badly set up junctions you get.

You know the ones where the traffic lights don't quite synch with flow and you end up with loads of people stuck going nowhere and getting all cross because everyone's in their way?

Then one day the lights fail and what do you know, everything works seamlessly, people look at what's going on around them, they watch what others are up to and fit with that, they all get to where they need to go, and everyone says "bloody hell, it works loads better without the lights".

That's what this government is like, for me.

Staff working in the shops don't have a choice though? What about them?

They won't be in my face one would hope, I can't see all that perspex disappearing overnight.

Do many people express a desire to be in your face, @LightAsTheBreeze?

Would I refuse if specifically asked? No. Would I choose to wear one to nip the ten steps from table to loo? Also no.

That bbc link above is very clear and sensible. I see lots of posts here rubbishing masks, as if those who want to continue wearing them are martyrs to the cause. Its so annoying. Just listen to people like the scientists who know what they are talking about.

I'm vaccinated, but don't fancy a big viral load from being in close contact from people who are probably unvaccinated (judging by how selfishly they were acting)

This sort of nasty, judgy, conclusion-jumping shit is just going to get worse, isn't it.

II won’t wear one anymore, and was astonished, out doors in a garden centre to see people wearing them.

Utter madness.

Very weak of the government, would rather they were either law or no guidance given.

We were talking about this last week at work. I can see work wanting to mandate mask wearing, but I can't see people complying so it would be left to the poor security team to try and enforce. Half the staff would also stop wearing them unless marshalled.

Very divisive and unpleasant. Surely we either need them or we dont in which case unless anyone really want to wear them or for their business to there's no need for any guidance.

@EverythingWillFallInLine

Do many people express a desire to be in your face, *@LightAsTheBreeze*?

I work in a shop, people are in my face multiple times a day.

BloodyStupidJohnson thanks.

In this case is the mask not the PPE and COVID or chance someone has it in the absence of a test the risk? In the smoking rulings the cigarette smoke the risk and extractor fans the PPE.

Just watched the clip of Zahawi talking about this in Andrew Marr
“The guidelines will be very clear on things like masks wearing. There will be an expectation that people wear them indoors in public places and on public transport”.

Gosh. If only they’d already had a way to make that guidance really really clear.
Whatever your opinion on masks, the situation is undoubtedly far less clear if the legal element is removed but the guidance still says there is an expectation for people to wear them - I wonder if the actual wording of the guidance will say “you must”. One of my main issues throughout this whole pandemic has been non-legally enforceable things being presented as the law by ministers (and, at times, by the police).

@FlowerFlirtyFairFlax

II won’t wear one anymore, and was astonished, out doors in a garden centre to see people wearing them.

Utter madness.

Why is it madness? They may be being overcautious, but they are not hurting anyone.

Well, they can expect away! Ridiculous.

There's a very simple fact that should state the obvious.

Those who wear a mask are of reduced risk to those who do not.
Whereas those who do not wear a mask are a higher risk to those who do.

Surely on the basis of risk, the solution is obvious.