Vaccine hesitancy and Autism

[IknowThisIsRidiculous]

NC for this as I... er...know this is ridiculous. Apologies in advance for the length.

Background: My DS is almost 20. He was a baby and due the MMR around the time of the Andrew Wakefield scandal. My exH had health anxiety and was paranoid about all the MMR/Autism stuff so we didn't give him the MMR but went with single jabs. Then at the age of 10 he was going on a school trip to France, needed to have had the MMR as there was an outbreak of measles in France at the time so I gave him the booster (we were NC with ex by that time).

Fast forward: around the age of 15/16 I started to think that my DS may be on the spectrum due to some of the characteristics that were becoming stronger (classic ASC traits) and started to do some research. Nothing had ever been raised at school or by any childcarers (he's high functioning). I tried to discuss it with him but he dismissed it and that was the end of the subject.

Fast forward again to now. For various reasons, DS has come to the conclusion that he is on the spectrum (I agree). He has done an online assessment which has confirmed to him that there is a "high probability" but he doesn't (yet) want to consider getting a diagnosis. He has really struggled with Covid and is completely against getting the vaccine (he's got sucked into the anti-vax conspiracy) and while doing his research he has come across the Andrew Wakefield/Autism/Vaccine information.

Now here's the question: DS is convinced that having the MMR at 10 'gave' him Autism as the 'symptoms' didn't really become obvious until he was well into his teens. I've told him that that's not the case as he definitely had the characteristics before the age of 10 but I just didn't know enough about it at that stage. BUT - I'm struggling to convince him of this as I'm not convinced myself that he did.

Has anyone else's ASC DC only displayed traits in their teens?

ps. I don't for one minute believe the Andrew Wakefield stuff.

Oh and @Dustyboots, if you're worried about vaccines affecting the brain then I hate to break it to you about measles-related encephalitis.

I didn't have the mmr. it wasn't invented. I had the measles vaccine and caught mumps and rubella when small. I am autistic. diagnosed past 45.

Has anyone else's ASC DC only displayed traits in their teens?

One of mine. The other two diagnosed in KS1, but the middle one has a very different presentation. I had been suspicious of dyspraxia for a few years, but not ASC. Same diagnosis in the end. They’re all very high functioning, but with serious hurdles in one or two areas each.

I know this, but I'm having difficulty convincing him that because he's reading all the negative stuff about the Covid vaccine and putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5! I think he's looking for something to blame (he has form for this).

Has he seen any aspie positivity stuff? Or whoever it was that thinks we (autists) are the next evolutionary leap forward ? If he’s going down a rabbit hole, find him a better one. 😉

Is he likely to cooperate with with joining a social group of young men/people with HF ASC?

When you've got adults being diagnosed then yes, very much late diagnosis is normal

It’s much easier to mask or fly under the radar at primary school. It’s very common for things to become more apparent during teenage years as the greater demands make it harder to mask.

Many adults are only just being diagnosed as their children are it doesn’t mean the symptoms weren’t there just not recognised.

How does he ecplain all the adults being diagnosed? Those for whom there was no mmr?

Here is an editorial and feature series from the BMJ about Andrew Wakefield and the MMR and how he was discredited, he might like to read. There are links to papers, including Wakefield's original article, if he wants to read them himself.

Wakefield’s article linking MMR vaccine and autism was fraudulent
www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452

Press release about feature series
www.bmj.com/press-releases/2012/06/26/revealed-secret-businesses-which-aimed-exploit-vaccine-fears-“mmr-doctor”-

How the case against the MMR vaccine was fixed
www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347

How the vaccine crisis was meant to make money
www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5258

Has anyone else's ASC DC only displayed traits in their teens?

Yes, despite being under the care of a paediatrician, who is an expert in autism, for ARFID. He was a very bright, articulate, mature, well-behaved child who was good at masking. Apart from the ARFID, it wasn't until he was in his teens that the differences between him and his peers started to have a negative impact. He has never had the MMR, he had single vaccines.

@Thoosa

I know this, but I'm having difficulty convincing him that because he's reading all the negative stuff about the Covid vaccine and putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5! I think he's looking for something to blame (he has form for this).

Has he seen any aspie positivity stuff? Or whoever it was that thinks we (autists) are the next evolutionary leap forward ? If he’s going down a rabbit hole, find him a better one. 😉

Is he likely to cooperate with with joining a social group of young men/people with HF ASC?

Agree with this!

Lots of very positive dialogue now from the autistic community and how we need to celebrate neurodiversity, and adovocate for changes in systems to accomodate differences, rather than expecting everyone to behave in a "neurotypical" way.

Definitely direct him to some of these groups.

Or whoever it was that thinks we (autists) are the next evolutionary leap forward ?

Professor Tony Attwood (amongst others). Incidentally, despite being a world renowned expert on autism, he didn't recognise the signs in his own son until he was diagnosed in his thirties.

Oh was it really Tony Attwood? I haven’t read anything of his for 20 years but really liked one of his books when DC1 was being assessed.

ASD. dyslexia, dyspraxia, adhd etc are all linked. In my family I have relatives with ASD, dyslexia and dyspraxia (and some with more than one). I bet there are people in your or your ex's family with them even if they have gone undiagnosed.
Ironically I delayed giving mine the MMR until he was past the age of regression. He was very bright and I had no concerns when he was young - he was diagnosed at secondary school age when it became much more obvious. I have no concerns that it was the MMR that gave it to him, I see now that he was a nightmare as a baby with sleeping, food, clothing, textures, change....I just thought he was a difficult baby, they a quirky preschooler, then very bright at school....

If he is high functioning it's very easy for it not to be picked up in Primary. Lots of little boys are quirky and show traits of being slightly on the spectrum. It's common for it to exaggerate in puberty.

It is not unusual for high functioning autistic children to be able to mask in educational settings.

For me personally, the teenage years were when I really started having problems in education. The additional complexity of adolescent relationships in combination with the hormonal storm of puberty meant that my intelligence was no longer enough to mask.

I have three friends with children in primary who are exploring neurodiverse autistic spectrum diagnoses where the child is perfect at school but it all comes pouring out at home. Two are boys.

Masking is very common among boys and girls. (I teach children on the autistic spectrum) the children diagnosed with autism who tend to come to us, a special school, actually have either a specific communication difficulty or adhd. Or both. So there's many children with autism in mainstream who tend not to be diagnosed because theyre more capable both at academic levels, communication as well as masking.

Loads of info here:

theautisticadvocate.com/

Ben goldachre wrote a lot about the MMR issue. Possibly in bad science, definitely on his website.

I met someone whose daughter had her mmr then seizured and completely regressed . She lost her speech and became a different child which then resulted in an autism diagnosis. She suffered from vaccine induced encephalitis. In your sons case however and most people on the spectrum that I know there is likely to be a genetic link.

@Foobydoo my ds had traits earlier but we were never offered formal assessments. Ended up being diagnosed at 15 after some very difficult years from about age 9 with anxiety. Self esteem issues and school difficulties.

Yep my Aspergers ds is definitely a masker whereas my ADHD child's behaviour is more noticeable at school

It is actually very common for traits only to become more apparent in early teens, especially for girls. This is due to hormones/ puberty but it is also when the social and academic demands of life increase and they can no longer meet them. For example in primary school parents may set up and facilitate a play dates/ activities but in secondary school this is not the norm and it is only when the young person struggles to initiate and maintain friendships that it becomes more apparent. Same with things like travelling independently to school- some ASD young people struggle with the planning and sensory aspects of getting a bus to school- but this was not evident before as parent walked them to school.

Op your dc's approach to things is quite ASD- fixed mindset, rigidity of thought etc. I don't know if your dc would meet criteria for a diagnosis or not obviously. But he has to be on board with any assessment process and a diagnosis is only helpful if it's helpful- not if it's going to cause any undue additional stress.

In terms of MMR, Wakefields research was totally discredited. Research shows a strong genetic link along with environmental factors. I have a cousin who became very anti-vax after their dc got a diagnosis age 3 and attributes this to mmr. They didn't give it to the younger children and 2 of the younger ones were diagnosed and the youngest the most severely affected. They still believe it is because of the MMR 🤷‍♀️