What's happening in China now?

[Charley198]

Just curious if anyone has any knowledge... I see they have barely any cases or deaths anymore.
With such a huge population how's this achievable? Or are their figures just not reported?

@Cornettoninja

Back off a bit *@marshabradyo*, I never claimed to be on the team investigating the origins of covid, I’m just making the point that Wuhan is where it was first identified, that doesn’t mean it’s where it originated. It’s a big city.

We’ve seen enough variants emerge recently that it’s plausible covid has already been in circulation presenting as a much milder disease or one that wasn’t as transmissible that didn’t attract attention.

Why would I need to clutch at straws? It makes no odds to me where covid came from I just think it’s interesting to note that just because something is identified somewhere doesn’t mean that’s where it originated.

I find it so illogical if you look at all the elements.

But ok if you can see it’s probably not the case.

I live in China (HK). Covid in China is pretty well controlled, but achieved largely by them basically isolating themselves from the rest of the world - borders have been closed since March 2020 and even the border between HK and China (which isn't really an international border) has been closed for a year now, with exceptions for freight. A couple of things to note

• China doesn't record asymptomatic cases so there is some undercounting. Also outside major cities the record keeping may not be 100%. However, China has also been very effective at virus control, largely as a result of it's political and cultural norms- for example:

• China has insanely extensive track and trace and no home quarantine/ home recovery. You have covid, you stay in hospital until you don't. If you're a close contact, you go to the government quarantine camp for 21 days. This is the same in HK. Even if that means that you, your DH and 3 kids spend 3 weeks in a room that measures 10 ft square. Locals are totally fine with this and see it as a necessary evil. Obviously not gonna get away with that in UK.

• They can just lock down whole cities/ districts and test everyone and no-one allowed out till they've done it. Again, accepted as means to an end.

• Chinese people are generally more "respiratory disease conscious". Yes, masks were already a thing- if you had a cough or cold you wore a surgical mask in public. I'm not sure about mainland, but in HK, masks are mandatory inside and outside with a sole exemption for strenuous exercise. That's it. No other exemptions whatsoever for people aged over 2 years old. Again, no-one really complains about it.

• If China had a major covid problem, at least in the south, that would be showing up in HK by now due to the cross border freight (10,000 trucks a day) and it hasn't, so it's likely that there is v little covid in China.

So in conclusion, there's probably a bit more than is reported, but its not a major issue and there are reasons why that is the case that would not be feasible in the UK.

@NannyAndJohn

We haven't heard a peep from China for an entire year because their government has actually managed to control Covid.

I think you mean because their government has controlled the population.

If only China could have controlled their home grown, human engineered Coronavirus like they have their press coverage we wouldn’t be in a global pandemic

I'm sure MERS was from the Middle East, camels specifically, but yeah ok

Three days before Patient S01’s symptoms began, on Dec. 5, 2019, an oral swab was taken from a 4-year-old boy outside of Milan who was suspected of having measles. Months later, it tested positive for coronavirus RN

I read somewhere Milan has direct flights to Wuhan and the link is the garment industry.

On December 14th 2019 dd who works in hospitality was manager of a wedding event for a Chinese couple living in the U.K. at a country house hotel
There were many relatives who travelled from China and were returning to China within hours of the wedding.
As the guests left there were many taxis and minibuses taking the guests directly to the airport.

A few days later dd became ill, followed by Ds who couldn’t get out of bed for Christmas day.I went down with the illness on Boxing Day then Dh on 30th December .

So many of the people we know had this illness in December.

If people were ill here and other countries around the world in December 2019 then why did the Chinese officials think they could save face and squash any rumours of a terrible illness.

I think the Chinese government need to get their minds round the fact they might be able to get its own citizens to believe it’s rhetoric but the rest of the world, no matter what they want people to believe, a lot just don’t believe anything they say anymore.

I think it was the news report saying that China had this virus under control. There have only been 3 deaths (or whatever small number it was) but are building a large hospital from scratch in a 10 days.

It is the arrogance that they think people will believe anything they say.

@summermode

“I bet China are waiting for Biden to get the patent waivers through the companies... Then they will mass produce the mRNA and have a spin to show what heroes they are.”

China has its own WTO approved vaccines and the vaccination rates are very high (driven by recent imported cases). And there are many more currently at the trial stage. Its vaccine is not as effective as prifzer according to available data - the Oxford one is also less effective than prfzer (but it is much cheaper, right?)

China has provided vaccines to many developing countries，particularly the Africa and the US media called it “vaccine diplomacy” (in a negative tone) to get support from those countries. The US promised 80m vaccines by June but has not fulfilled it yet. China is always the bad guy, isn’t it?

But the Chinese vaccine has proved to give poor protection to people. They gave it to Chile and the Chileans carried on catching covid. Their top disease control official, Gao Fu, admitted publicly that it had a low efficacy rate. It was shown in Brazil to have an efficacy rate of 50.4%. It is very negative that China are handing out and selling a vaccine to with such a poor efficacy rate to developing countries does not make you a good guy.

doesn't China have a constant tracking app? You have to check in everywhere, and that means everywhere, taxi, entering or leaving every building.

when covid is found ,they repeatedly test the entire population of the city over a few days to find all cases. it's not voluntary.

Pretty much. Certainly testing is not voluntary. Even in HK, if someone in your building or school tests positive, you will be made subject to a mandatory testing order. It’s illegal not to get tested. Also sometimes they sweep certain professions, such as all taxi drivers or all domestic helpers. You have a week to comply. I’ve only been subject once but it was quite nerve wracking as you know if you’re positive everyone you’ve seen in the last 2 weeks is off to the quarantine camp- how to win friends and influence people .

[quote summermode]@Comedycook
I think masks are a culture thing. East Asian people use masks even before the pandemic, in the flu season, or when the pollution level is high (typically winter)

Singaporean and Japanese wear masks too, do you think they do so because of fear? Yes, fear of virus, not government.[/quote]
East Asians living in cities tend to wear face masks due to air pollution, not flu. This is why, over the years, you see some East Asians in big English cities wearing them.

@Earlydancing It was shown in Brazil to have an efficacy rate of 50.4%. It is very negative that China are handing out and selling a vaccine to with such a poor efficacy rate to developing countries does not make you a good guy.

AZ, Pfizer and Moderna vaccines aren’t great either because people are still falling ill! The side effects in young people is also concerning.

Also, you mentioned China selling a vaccine to developing countries… Pfizer did something worse. They conducted an experimental drug trial (antibiotic rather than a vaccine) on Nigerian children without their parents’ consent. They tried to cover it up for over a decade:

https:/www.theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/11/pfizer-nigeria-meningitis-drug-compensation

@Bythemillpond because those living in China who wish to critique the Chinese government endure threats and do so with considerable risk. They are not able to openly discuss issues putting government in a negative light.

midsummabreak

Bythemillpond because those living in China who wish to critique the Chinese government endure threats and do so with considerable risk. They are not able to openly discuss issues putting government in a negative light

This is the problem. No one actively turns round to them and tells them no one believes anything they say. (Apart from Trump)

This is the problem. No one actively turns round to them and tells them no one believes anything they say. (Apart from Trump)

The CCP know, they just don’t care. The people they need to control they have direct access to.

Every country knows that as long as they keep their policies within their own borders no one is going to do anything. The only time there is really any meaningful international intervention is when issues start ‘leaking’. Even then it’s not a given anything of substance will be done or achieved, take a look at Russia, North Korea, Papua and even conflicts including Ireland, the basque conflict, the Turkish genocide of Armenians and conflict with Cyprus. Other countries don’t get involved beyond lip service even if it seems there is a clear moral imperative to do so.

If any western governments were seriously moved to impose sanctions on China they could do but they don’t because we’re very reliant on them supplying us with most of the components we need to make our societies work and it would cost a fortune to set up our own manufacturing capabilities. Even then I’m not sure we have access to raw materials. It’s messy.

[quote CoralSparkles]**@Earlydancing* It was shown in Brazil to have an efficacy rate of 50.4%. It is very negative that China are handing out and selling a vaccine to with such a poor efficacy rate to developing countries does not make you a good guy.*

AZ, Pfizer and Moderna vaccines aren’t great either because people are still falling ill! The side effects in young people is also concerning.

Also, you mentioned China selling a vaccine to developing countries… Pfizer did something worse. They conducted an experimental drug trial (antibiotic rather than a vaccine) on Nigerian children without their parents’ consent. They tried to cover it up for over a decade:

https:/www.theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/11/pfizer-nigeria-meningitis-drug-compensation[/quote]
What Pfizer did, and what I'm sure other pharmaceutical companies do, is a red herring in this situation. It's China, a country not a company, that is selling or donating the vaccine. It's China that licenced the vaccine knowing that it lacks efficacy. AZ is at minimum 76% effective which is considerably more so that the Chinese vaccine, and, from the studies they have done, is estimated more effective than that. I stand by my statement that handing out vaccine saying how effective it is while knowing its not, does in fact make you the bad guys.

@CoralSparkles

This isn’t fully true about masks. I live in East Asia and people have worn masks for many years when they are ill. Not so much to protect themselves as others and it’s seen as good manners (pollution masks are also sometimes worn too).