Vaccine is not a real vaccine

[CheeseWall]

Is what my colleague says. Dh and I have had both vaccines and will have our dc vaccinated as soon as this is possible.

My colleague says that the vaccine is not a vaccine per se but that it's 'gene therapy'. He claims to have researched the matter extensively and that people who have had Covid, even asymptomatically, have antibodies, which will protect them from getting very ill.

What spooked me was his claim that the vaccine kills off people's natural antibodies, which they have from having been exposed to the disease and that therefore people who have been vaccinated are only protected against that particular variant whereas those who have antibodies but aren't vaccinated have protection against a range of variants.

Please tell me this is nonsense.

Your colleague is a massive knob.

I’m going to presume his “extensive research” involves googling as opposed to actual research 🙄

Sounds like a lunatic.

He claims to have researched the matter extensively

He has read some Facebook posts by lunatics.

I suspect his research is actually 'research' - does he actually have any relevant qualifications which mean he can assess the scientific literature?

Or has he just been titting about on the Internet?

He’s obviously read a lot of stuff and understood bits of it because there are elements of truth in there - yes someone who’s had Covid will probably have antibodies and some level of protection against it for the future. And yes the new mRNA vaccines are quite different in mechanism to traditional types of vaccine and they’re not a million miles away from gene therapy.

The last paragraph however sounds flaky as hell - marking time for someone who knows their stuff to come in and explain why it’s bollocks.

My colleague says that the vaccine is not a vaccine per se but that it's 'gene therapy'. He claims to have researched the matter extensively

I think he is technically correct about this part... but only in the same way as when the internet came along, they had to expand the definition of "communication", didn't they?

They've used gene therapy technology to create a vaccine and widened the definition of a vaccine in the same way the first pioneers of anything widened the definition of anything?

I remember reading this (from an actual trusted source because it's not really the smoking gun some people make it out to be)... I'll try to find the link and report back.

The rest of it though... 🤷🏻‍♀️

One of my friends says this as well. I suspect it's a technicality - it perhaps isn't (or originally wasn't but is now) classed as a vaccine but the term is being used for clarity among the public. It certainly doesn't mean it's ineffective and I rather doubt that it is "deleting antibodies" - that doesn't make sense?

It's something to do with it being MRNA if I understand correctly, but I haven't really followed it down - This might explain it a bit better?

www.breakthroughs.com/advancing-medical-research/what-makes-rna-vaccine-different-conventional-vaccine

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

These are just random links I got from googling "How MRNA vaccine works".

What spooked me was his claim that the vaccine kills off people's natural antibodies, which they have from having been exposed to the disease and that therefore people who have been vaccinated are only protected against that particular variant whereas those who have antibodies but aren't vaccinated have protection against a range of variants.

I had covid in October, enough complications to require hospital admission and ongoing issues.

I was first vaccinated in February and second in May.

I did an antibody test last month and I still have antibodies from the virus 7+ months on. The vaccine has not killed off my antibodies. They survived the vaccine.

I take it your colleagues ‘massive research’ mainly involves listening to to his mate Dave off of Facebook! Muppet.

It's a bit like genetically modified food - people hear the term and imagine all sorts of complicated and problematic things. But we've been crossbreeding and genetically seleting vegetables, animals bred for meat/egg/milk production for centuries, it's not necessarily a harmful thing to do.

Someone else was talking about gene therapy in here. This is quite a good explanation. It is not gene therapy:

Gene therapies involve making deliberate changes to a patient’s DNA in order to cure or alleviate a genetic condition. This can be by adding a functional copy of a gene, disabling a gene that makes a faulty product or changing gene activation.

The mRNA from the vaccines does not enter the cell nucleus or interact with the DNA at all, so it does not constitute gene therapy.

Gene therapies can have long-lasting effects because they permanently change the cell’s DNA, with these changes being inherited by any daughter cells that result if the cell divides. In contrast, mRNAs are always transitory and are not inherited by daughter cells, making them ideal for use in vaccines.

Although mRNA therapies have been the subject of clinical trials for many years, their role in the fight against Covid-19 has only accelerated interest in their usefulness to combat other conditions, including rare diseases and cancer.

Ah, that's what my aunt says as well.

She's well informed as her neighbour's husband who used to work in a hospital told her.

it must be true.

@Abraxan - can an antibody test tell the difference between antibodies from an infection and antibodies from vaccinations? I am intrigued!

Oh my goodness. It is nothing like gene therapy and your colleague is talking rubbish

They are being a dick.

I want to know more about the alternative views that your colleague holds, OP.

Thank you undercovertoad

What a load of rubbish!

Oh god, do you need to ask?

Not all covid vaccines use the same mechanism of action.

You will gain antibodies for variants exposed too. They, life flu antibodies, do not last forever as the virus mutates.

He has also probably said that the common cold is a coronavirus, which a small number of are, but they aren't covid 19. Same wrapper, different sweet.

people who have had Covid, even asymptomatically, have antibodies, which will protect them from getting very ill.

Yes, I had it asymptomatically and still have antibodies a year later. However this does vary between people, so I don't think you can make a blanket statement that it's true for all.

What spooked me was his claim that the vaccine kills off people's natural antibodies

That is nonsense, thankfully! Scientists have shown antibodies (and CD4 and CD8 T cells) present before and after vaccination. I'd rather trust them.

Do you think, for one single moment, news outlets like The Observer, the guardian, sky, the mirror, would have kept quiet if what your colleague said was true?

Of course they wouldn't.

Your colleague has an axe to grind. D not be the one he grinds it on

[quote MrsLCSofLichfield]@Abraxan - can an antibody test tell the difference between antibodies from an infection and antibodies from vaccinations? I am intrigued![/quote]
Yes
Or at least I understand they do. I am double vaccinated and have volunteered for the antibody test with the Zoe app. The results say that I haven’t got antibodies from exposure to the virus (and in fact I have never tested positive or had symptoms). I believe there are other tests available which check antibodies due to the vaccine. Some are even available privately, but I don’t think they are considered reliable.

I don't even understand what he is saying along with all the other 'anti vax' theories my stupidness saves me

Do you or your DH really need someone to tell that his colleague is spouting a pile of old shite?

Please tell me that the colleague is not working in any kind of job even vaguely related to healthcare...