Let's face it, they're letting it rip.

[ZednotZee]

Aren't they?

The vaccines aren't seemingly preventing transmission.

We are opening up on the 19th.

This is being done presumably as the public appetite for further lockdowns will be nil come October/November so best to get it over with now and have heard immunity come the autumn.

They won't say it but its becoming very clear that the immunocompromised need to continue to shield til the rest of us have contracted and got over the infection.

[quote curlyLJ]@RedToothBrush I agree with you.
I really hate the emotive language such as "letting it rip" or "thrown under a bus"

Trouble is, the media have had a hand in frightening people half to death, reporting figures in an ambiguous way etc

The current hospitalisations are around 400 per day, when back at the peak in January it was 4000 per day.
We are currently running at just under 50% of the daily cases at the same peak time, so the vaccine is clearly doing its job, otherwise we'd have 2000+ admissions each day.

I just think there are some people who want to be locked down forever. I can't see why there would be another lockdown if the vaccine is working 🤷🏻‍♀️

Children aren't being thrown under a bus because they aren't affected badly by Covid. There are plenty of other viruses that are much more dangerous to young children (flu, RSV) and my kids will NOT be getting the covid vaccine.

It's time to learn to live with Covid now, because it's certainly not going anywhere.[/quote]
locked down forever is rather emotive language isn't it?

And don't worry.

We'll all soon find out what "living with covid" looks like.

I can't work out if people are

• genuinely scared of facts
• whipped up by media & stupid invented facts
• enjoying lockdown
• enjoying drama

But all determined to ignore the fact that people aren't dying of covid as it stands and any great numbers and certainly proportionally fewer than died of flu in 2016/17. We've always got poorly from colds and flus and bugs as a society. We've always had to spend a few days off work feeling a bit shit or in bed with a virus. It's not a new thing. And, some people end up in hospital for a few days, a few will die. That's always happened. What's happening now, with infections, isn't what was happening at peak c19.

Saline ? . Tell that to my twice monthly periods since the vaccine. Didn't do nothing intact ruined something the only thing that's been consistent my whole adult life where's my health has not . I take two immunosuppressants

At junior school this morning today there were only two parents wearing masks. The children have had bubbles broken in many classes and still the parents arrive not wearing masks. The virus is rife in our schools. Why are parents being negligent regarding masks and not keeping their distance. Insane!!

IMO children need to vaccinated. Long Covid is a thing. If Johnson had done his job we wouldn’t be in this position.

I disagree. Although the infection rate is up deaths are very low and the vast majority of the most vulnerable have been vaccinated. It’s time to get back to living. The NHS won’t pay for itself. Economically we can’t continue as is.there are thousands of people waiting on cancer treatment, I have lost 2 family members , 1 to suicide and 1 a drugs overdose as a result of lockdown. Finally common sense has prevailed.

@lilstarr99

IMO children need to vaccinated. Long Covid is a thing. If Johnson had done his job we wouldn’t be in this position.

I can't see many people agreeing to vaccinating children until they think the vaccine has enough proof of safety. The figures for long covidvin children are negligible

Let's lock away the vulnerable because cough cough we sensitive little things can't brweeth with a bit of material over our mouths.
Numbers are rising especially in schools.
What should we do... keep mask wearing at the very least and vaccine the over 12s.

New Zealand care about their citizens...
they have well under 50 deaths caused by covid..... UK have over 126,000 deaths.
126k deaths because they couldn't make the decent logical decisions.... and they're still failing.

To the 'what ever they do people will moan' person..... yes as with anything but normally other decisions dont cause severe illness or death.

@Vynalbob

Let's lock away the vulnerable because cough cough we sensitive little things can't brweeth with a bit of material over our mouths. Numbers are rising especially in schools. What should we do... keep mask wearing at the very least and vaccine the over 12s.

New Zealand care about their citizens...
they have well under 50 deaths caused by covid..... UK have over 126,000 deaths.
126k deaths because they couldn't make the decent logical decisions.... and they're still failing.

To the 'what ever they do people will moan' person..... yes as with anything but normally other decisions dont cause severe illness or death.

If people were still dying at those rates, I could agree with some of that. But they aren't.

Lockdown has gone on long enough and has itself caused many many indirect deaths. The adult population has had ample opportunity now to get double vaccinated. This prevents serious illness. Transmission and case numbers are both irrelevant if you're vaccinated.
What do you expect the government to do instead? Lock us up forever??

I think it’s going to get interesting when people realise Covid is going to be half our problem in a few weeks.. and you can just imagine the shock horror, how did that happen threads already.. The NHS has pretty much zero slack now, some are on the brink of having to create new Covid wards again and they haven’t begun to make even the smallest dent in the backlog of elective surgeries. Leeds, one of the largest hospitals, has just (post leak) admitted it is about to have to cancel all elective surgeries again and it’s the tip of the iceberg. Every Covid ward opened is an ICU ward shut, never mind the sheer volume of staff who will be isolating or testing positive post double vaccine… Elective isn’t nose jobs, It’s anything that isn’t an immediate emergency. No heart surgery, no cancer surgery, no life improving surgery (hips, knees, spines).. I wonder how many people refusing to follow the basic hands, face, space advice when it doesn’t affect them (just the left behind CEV population) will have a change of heart when the above that affects a huge swathe of people they probably do know are dying from entirely preventable diseases or left with no quality if life. Yes we have to live with Covid, yes we have to manage the economy and open up more but there is zero sense in dropping the easy things that could get us and the hospitals through the next year vaguely intact.

@Rhinothunder

Lockdown has gone on long enough and has itself caused many many indirect deaths. The adult population has had ample opportunity now to get double vaccinated. This prevents serious illness. Transmission and case numbers are both irrelevant if you're vaccinated. What do you expect the government to do instead? Lock us up forever??

Not strictly true on the double vaccination time scales but I agree with your point.

@Rhinothunder

Lockdown has gone on long enough and has itself caused many many indirect deaths. The adult population has had ample opportunity now to get double vaccinated. This prevents serious illness. Transmission and case numbers are both irrelevant if you're vaccinated. What do you expect the government to do instead? Lock us up forever??

Yes, some people clearly actually want that and start with the emotive language.

It would be interesting to know if all of the people advocating keeping restrictions in place - (eg keeping school bubbles, 10 days isolation despite having vaccine etc…
In order to ‘prevent deaths’) are organ donors.

The expectation that other people should do things to preserve the life of others, even if it’s deteriorating their own health (constant restrictions, couldn’t see family etc) is a common theme on here, yet turn it round and when someone’s life could be saved, via organ donation, many people decline, simply because they can. Even though the organs are going to rot quite literally and could actually save a life….

To my mind it's all arse about face. Lifting restrictions like face masks (minor inconvenience) but then keeping the rules around self-isolation even for those who have been double vaccinated (major headache for most people) simply means that we will have MILLIONS supposedly self-isolating.

This does the hospitality and travel sectors no favours at all and the chances are that most will simply NOT self-isolate anyway. Ridiculous.

Re: organ donation, everyone in the UK is an organ donor now unless they actively opt out. The law changed last May.

Javid admitting that we could see 100,000 cases a day grabbed all the headlines yesterday.

He went on to say "What matters more than anything is hospitalisation and death numbers."

When asked what they would be he said

"We haven't put numbers on hospitalisations"!

I've always maintained that more people will die not from covid but from having to wait so long for surgery and other NHS procedures and appointments.
I've been told ' this is rubbish' but I can't see how the NHS can catch up now without this being a huge issue. It is very sad :(

@Cornettoninja

Re: organ donation, everyone in the UK is an organ donor now unless they actively opt out. The law changed last May.

Yes, I’m aware of this and o think it’s fantastic. There will be those that will opt out though just because they can.

Well my "natural immunity" was useless when dd bought Covid home from school in December. Same for ds. Still have no smell....

Leeds hospirals just announced they're cancelling urgent surgeries

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/leeds-cancer-surgery-coronavirus-nhs-b1879646.html

@the80sweregreat

I've always maintained that more people will die not from covid but from having to wait so long for surgery and other NHS procedures and appointments. I've been told ' this is rubbish' but I can't see how the NHS can catch up now without this being a huge issue. It is very sad :(

Very true. Because the average person hasn’t had the opportunity to mix with others, even things like D&V, flu will likely be more severe this winter because of the lack of exposure to otherwise normal viruses. I suspect the deaths of these viruses will be higher than average this year too.

It is sad you’re right about that.

@the80sweregreat

I've always maintained that more people will die not from covid but from having to wait so long for surgery and other NHS procedures and appointments. I've been told ' this is rubbish' but I can't see how the NHS can catch up now without this being a huge issue. It is very sad :(

Yeah. Every bed occupied by a covid patient because the government let cases build to unprecedented levels again is a bed the NHS can't use to treat someone off the waiting list.

[quote colouringindoors]Leeds hospirals just announced they're cancelling urgent surgeries

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/leeds-cancer-surgery-coronavirus-nhs-b1879646.html[/quote]
Which won’t be taken as the warning it should be.

@ZednotZee

Aren't they?

The vaccines aren't seemingly preventing transmission.

We are opening up on the 19th.

This is being done presumably as the public appetite for further lockdowns will be nil come October/November so best to get it over with now and have heard immunity come the autumn.

They won't say it but its becoming very clear that the immunocompromised need to continue to shield til the rest of us have contracted and got over the infection.

Vaccines are reducing infection rates and severity of infection.

Very true. Because the average person hasn’t had the opportunity to mix with others, even things like D&V, flu will likely be more severe this winter because of the lack of exposure to otherwise normal viruses.

They already know this will be a huge problem. Basically flu strategy is fucked for next year as a direct result of lockdowns last winter (very low immunity, harder to guess the variants for vaccine purposes).

So it really is damned if you don't lockdown and damned if you do.

From a health pov, never mind the social, psychological, economic fallout.