Once we are 'back to normal' what needs to happen about employees being absent because of covid

[StealthPolarBear]

Have seen a rumour, nothing substantiated, that London underground will treat covid absence like any other and staff will be subject to disciplinary.
This seems really short sighted, as it will lead to infected people lying and coming to work anyway.
But I do have some sympathy with employers who do need people at work.
What's the answer? Suppose the answer is to not open up, which I personally think isn't an option at this stage.

I want to go back to a time when I'd barely heard of hand gel, and when I saw someone in a mask I assumed they were a hcp.

Until recently people used to describe a mild sniffle as the flu. Maybe that day will come, urgh I felt awful all weekend with some bad covid. Still managed to have a few friends round for drinks on Saturday night though.

@PicsInRed

I suspect it will be a while before people dare work while they have covid, and be open about it.

"Oh my God, I have the worst covid"
"Haha, get away from me, I don't want your gross covid germs"
"Hahaha, cough, lulz" hilarity

This made me laugh. 😂😂😂 I know the very person who would say that.

I hate hate hate the mask but I LOVE all the hand gel. And I like cleaning my trolley handle. Would never have thought to do it before, now I can't believe I shopped without it.

I’ve never cleaned a trolley handle.

Unfortunately, it will be huisness as usual and I don't mind that I just think the country has been through a trauma, we are not 100% sure if the vaccines are going to last and I think we should be cautious..

@Ifitquacks

I’ve never cleaned a trolley handle.

😲😲😲

But, but, but those were the instructions!! I've not only cleaned my own, I've offered to clean other people's. 🤭 I'll fight them if they take those cleaning stations away.

Instructions from who?! No one told me . I’m not dead yet anyway.

Exactly. If its a choice between socially responsible and keeping the job you need to pay your bills I refuse to believe anyone wouldn't pick the latter.

Quite and that’s already happening. I know several people, inc Dd currently, who should be isolating and aren’t. Dd doesn’t get paid if she doesn’t work so she’s still going in. To be honest I think she’d still go in even if she was positive for covid.

I think this is a good question. At my work three periods of sickness triggers a red flag, and a meeting with HR, even if one was a broken leg, one a migraine, and one a stomach bug. People tend to work when they are ill, partly because it is massively inconvenient for colleagues and students (I’m a lecturer) if someone is off sick.

I felt really grim after my vaccination last week, but was lucky that we are WFH, it was a quiet day, and I was able to go back to bed and just keep on top of messages on my phone. I found out later that I would have had “special sickness leave”, likewise for actual Covid, or for childcare issues due to covid, which wouldn’t count towards the trigger point. It’s been a long time since I was off sick, so it wouldn’t have been an issue anyway, but I thought it was interesting given how the organisation is usually really fierce about absence management. I’m assuming we will be back on campus in autumn, at least part time, so I will watch to see how it pans out then.

@Ifitquacks

Instructions from who?! No one told me . I’m not dead yet anyway.

Quacks, the instruction were at the doors of all the supermarkets. They more or less checked you doing it before you went in.... Or maybe it was advice? Um, or maybe it was just there and it was up to you. Pah, this is why my house is a hole, I'm too busy cleaning everybody's trolleys!!

Very glad your still alive. Maybe it was your trolley I cleaned. 😉

Quacks, the instruction were at the doors of all the supermarkets. They more or less checked you doing it before you went in.... Or maybe it was advice

As a lawyer, I’m 100% sure it wasn’t a legal requirement . If you cleaned my trolley, retrospective thanks!

I'm literally a lifesaver. 😇

This isn't an issue with Covid, this is an issue with employers who take disciplinary action against employees who are genuinely ill and can't go to work. Which is a different matter entirely.

How can employers be allowed to discipline staff who have to take time off because they are ill? We're not living in the age of dark satanic mills, this is the 21st Century.

@ahoyshipmates

This isn't an issue with Covid, this is an issue with employers who take disciplinary action against employees who are genuinely ill and can't go to work. Which is a different matter entirely.

How can employers be allowed to discipline staff who have to take time off because they are ill? We're not living in the age of dark satanic mills, this is the 21st Century.

The NHS takes staff with lots of sickness absence down the disciplinary route all the time. Kind of ironic for something that delivers healthcare.

@ahoyshipmates

This isn't an issue with Covid, this is an issue with employers who take disciplinary action against employees who are genuinely ill and can't go to work. Which is a different matter entirely.

How can employers be allowed to discipline staff who have to take time off because they are ill? We're not living in the age of dark satanic mills, this is the 21st Century.

Although a very large number of people with Covid are well enough to work. DH just had a mildly snotty nose with Covid. No reason, normally, to take time off work. I had a less mild case but would only have needed 3-4 days off work, not 14. So employers will have to accept longer absences if the rules around isolation for a positive test continue.

Just making the point that in the way many used to come to work with a cold (myself included) that wil now apply to covid. Which is fine.

Maybe it would be better if more people didn't go to work with bad colds, and certainly not with tummy bugs. Or if they did they (and people with mild cv) took basic precautions against infecting others. Masks, hand gel....

Why would someone be punished for being ill? My whole working life has been in Italy, so to me this is completely bizarre. Here if you're ill, you're ill, but you have to have a doctors certificate from day one so there's no faking it, but they certainly don't tell you how many days you can have per year and punish you for it. No one wants sick employees to come in and spread whatever they've got which could result in a whole workforce being off.

@vintageglass

Why would someone be punished for being ill? My whole working life has been in Italy, so to me this is completely bizarre. Here if you're ill, you're ill, but you have to have a doctors certificate from day one so there's no faking it, but they certainly don't tell you how many days you can have per year and punish you for it. No one wants sick employees to come in and spread whatever they've got which could result in a whole workforce being off.

In England and, I think, the rest of the UK. Most employers will start managing people's sickness at certain points. Usually when you have had 3 absences in a certain period. In places I have worked its always been 3 periods in 12 months.

We don't required sick notes until day 7 of being sick. And tbh, I haven't known anyone struggle to get a fit note (which is the equivalent of doctors certificate).

Also pre pandemic lots of us would struggle to get a GPS appointment. So if you were sick Monday and Tuesday. Your appointment may not be until the week after.

Unfortunately, everywhere I have had worked the people who take the piss manage to avoid the triggers for it to be managed. And the people who are genuinely ill, are the ones that get managed. Because they can't help being ill.

In the short-term (next couple of years) I'm sure it'll be accepted if you have covid, you can be off work as it'll be a health and safety issue for your and your colleagues.

Not sure what's going to have with the unvaccinated (with the exception of those who really can have it), who will be far more likely to catch it and need longer off work - is that fair on the employer and the rest of their colleagues who have to cover.

@confuseddotcomma

What about people who have to be off to look after children due to bubbles bursting? Or are you thinking all that will stop too?

@confuseddotcomma there won’t be more bursted bubbles. Kids will have to test everyday instead of stay at home as per the rules that have been in the news this week

Hopefully doubled vaccinated people won’t have to isolate if they come into contact with a case. Obviously if they get symptoms or present as positive in any other (reliable) way, then they should.

Counting down the days until freedom aka vaccinated people > unvaccinated people day.

@Tigerblue

In the short-term (next couple of years) I'm sure it'll be accepted if you have covid, you can be off work as it'll be a health and safety issue for your and your colleagues.

Not sure what's going to have with the unvaccinated (with the exception of those who really can have it), who will be far more likely to catch it and need longer off work - is that fair on the employer and the rest of their colleagues who have to cover.

I asked my boss if we would hire a non-vaccinated person at work. We are a small team, 8 people all on their way to double vaccinated.

He said we’d cross that bridge when we come to it. But thought no one would apply to work for us who wasn’t double vaccinated. We work in drug discovery.

In principle it's not about punishment. If you are ill so frequently that you can't do the job, and your employer needs someone to do your job, what is the answee?

I asked my boss if we would hire a non-vaccinated person at work. We are a small team, 8 people all on their way to double vaccinated

Will you be asking the vaccination status of everyone who applies? Is it just the Covid vaccination you’re interested in, or will you be asking for their full vaccination history? MMR? HPV?

People will come in and spread it.
That's exactly what will happen in my air hanger of an office. Although its financial services, there is zero company sick pay. And no intention to change that. Also lots of first jobbers. No way are they just going to stay at home and not get paid.