Once we are 'back to normal' what needs to happen about employees being absent because of covid

[StealthPolarBear]

Have seen a rumour, nothing substantiated, that London underground will treat covid absence like any other and staff will be subject to disciplinary.
This seems really short sighted, as it will lead to infected people lying and coming to work anyway.
But I do have some sympathy with employers who do need people at work.
What's the answer? Suppose the answer is to not open up, which I personally think isn't an option at this stage.

Yes I think I agree I wouldn't go out of my way to spend time with someone who has covid but I accept its inevitable.

People who rely on nursery for childcare so we can work are forced to do covid tests every time a baby or child has a temp over 37.5 or we are barred from accessing our paid for childcare. Not sure how this is going to change. We can't just choose to stop testing them as then we can't work

Firing people for being off sick an arbitrary "too many days" is one thing I haven't ever understood about this country. In NZ there is a system which required presentation of a doctor's letter after a certain number of days (3 iirc) and, bluntly, few people took the piss.

NZ employees further have a statutory annual number of sick days, some employers top this up further, you get those days, then take any further sick leave as unpaid leave.

I've noticed people rarely take sick leave here in the UK, which presumably relates to fear of sacking.

The UK system is pretty odd in this regard.

Reform of the sick leave system might be a change.

This would put me off employing parents going forwards.

@SorrySoldOut

This would put me off employing parents going forwards.

Why?

You can’t to even get to see a doctor @PicsInRed

I suppose many employers are looking at a blended working pattern. Perhaps there will be more of a sway towards home working if unwell and in the office otherwise.

I don't understand? You mean because they'd isolate with children?
Do you mean parents or mothers?

@BlueSurfer

I suppose many employers are looking at a blended working pattern. Perhaps there will be more of a sway towards home working if unwell and in the office otherwise.

That works OK for many jobs but there are many many jobs which simply can't be done remotely

@StealthPolarBear

Reform of the sick leave system might be a change.

I agree. But who is going to fight for it. Reform of it will end up expensive for employers or the government or both.

And people don't seem to care about this issue. Maybe it's because of the pandemic, but people really don't seem to care that much about other pekes working conditions unless they are using them to to try and bolster their own point.

I think the self isolating without symptoms and without a positive test will end up at some point.
Here at Wales, it is 10 days for a close contact, even if tested negative.
It is a pain for the children at school.
But I think, if you have symptoms or tested positive, the current help will still be available, at least for the time being.
I do not think we are ready to let people walk around with it, every single variant is a new problem! And we do not know everything about the virus yet.

@SorrySoldOut

This would put me off employing parents going forwards.

One of the reasons out employer extended flexible working to all employees, going forward was due to schools.

My son has been off once, waiting for a covid test. But his class hasn't closed. However, some whole years have been closed. My dd had had 2 periods of isolation, because of a positive test. Dd is 17. So can look after herself. But ds would need me at home. Not looking after him every minute, but just there.

The rate some schools keep closing, some parents will barley be able to be at work.

So I can see why, of something isn't done. People won't want to employ parents

I haven't had a sick day for 17 years. The reason is because I can work effectively from home and manage my own diary.
Yet another way that covid will widen inequalities. I suspect it will be a while before people dare work while they have covid, and be open about it.

@MushMonster

I think the self isolating without symptoms and without a positive test will end up at some point. Here at Wales, it is 10 days for a close contact, even if tested negative. It is a pain for the children at school. But I think, if you have symptoms or tested positive, the current help will still be available, at least for the time being. I do not think we are ready to let people walk around with it, every single variant is a new problem! And we do not know everything about the virus yet.

Same in england. 10 days for a close contact and testing doesn’t release you.

Yes but schools won't be closed. Children won't be home unless they're positive, and eventually even if they're positive they'll be in school unless they're sick, surely?

This has been a problem throughout the pandemic. There was some research done a couple of months ago that found only about half of infected people were completing the full self isolation period and even less if they were close contacts rather than had symptoms themselves. Some didn't seem to understand the rules, and others couldn't afford it.

There have also always been jobs where it is very difficult to be off sick, for example some delivery drivers and many workers on zero hour contracts or self employed who don't get sick pay. If it means food on the table or not, what are they supposed to do?

@StealthPolarBear

Yes but schools won't be closed. Children won't be home unless they're positive, and eventually even if they're positive they'll be in school unless they're sick, surely?

Thats why I said if something isn't done. It wouldn't surprise me if employers aren't already not giving jobs to parents. They won't say that out loud.

But unless it's a job that can be done from home, it's a risk. And if it can be done at home but the children are young and need constant supervision, it's not possible.

Even if it's short term, people won't be wanting to employ parents.

There are a few comments comparing covid measures with measles. You definitely should not go to work or school if you have measles. They do contact trace and offer post-exposure prophylaxis and then more widely in a school would seek to vaccinate. I don't think any work place would be impressed if a contagious employee with measles turned up...

@nordica

This has been a problem throughout the pandemic. There was some research done a couple of months ago that found only about half of infected people were completing the full self isolation period and even less if they were close contacts rather than had symptoms themselves. Some didn't seem to understand the rules, and others couldn't afford it.

There have also always been jobs where it is very difficult to be off sick, for example some delivery drivers and many workers on zero hour contracts or self employed who don't get sick pay. If it means food on the table or not, what are they supposed to do?

Exactly. If its a choice between socially responsible and keeping the job you need to pay your bills I refuse to believe anyone wouldn't pick the latter.

Hopefully we won't even know if it's covid. Can't be bothered testing every time I get ill. It'll just be another virus that is either mild and you keep working, or tires you out and makes you feel too poorly to go into work.

Maya you're right. Damn.

@SorrySoldOut

You can’t to even get to see a doctor *@PicsInRed*

We didn't have much of an issue with that as dr appointments to adults are charged (those on low incomes have a "community services card" which enables free visits and prescriptions). It's not perfect, but there were more appointments available as people only went to the dr if they actually needed a doctor.

I suppose the good thing about parents of young children is that they're statistically likely to be younger themselves and therefore unlikely to suffer from catching covid?
Unlike us parents of older children.
Clutching at straws.

I suspect it will be a while before people dare work while they have covid, and be open about it.

"Oh my God, I have the worst covid"
"Haha, get away from me, I don't want your gross covid germs"
"Hahaha, cough, lulz" hilarity