Why are there so many antivaccine covidiots?!

[OwletteGeckoCatboy]

Stupidly let myself to rise to an antivaccine/anti covid comment on Facebook earlier and I'm kicking myself. I wasn't even nasty and got piled on being called an idiot. Why are there so many people who are like this?

I think the "idiots" are people who would willingly and happily toddle off to have the vaccine without even thinking about it or having any reservations at all considering this is an extremely new vaccine and also down to the very untrustworthy government and people in power we have. I don't believe much that comes out of any of their mouths any more.

If they are spreading untruths about the numbers of people having adverse affects then yes, that is annoying but then I wouldn't go on Facebook to have an intelligent discussion with anyone about..well, anything really.

I have weighed up the risks and had the vaccine - not because I feel scared of dying from the virus but because I don't want my freedom to be curtailed in any way with regards to travel etc. But I certainly don't feel particularly "happy" about feeling this societal pressure to have a vaccine for a virus that is extremely unlikely to do me any harm.

The post in question said that thousands of people have died from the vaccine. I know people have tragically died from the vaccine but I don't believe for a second it is thousands.

@Shadowboy

I’m not a covidiot but do have some worries about the vaccine. Parents both scientists - zoologist and microbiologist/ university Dean. Both have rejected the vaccine (60 and 65 years old) their rejection worries me. They are well read and my needle phobia also adds to the stress. I’m trying to get my nerves under control but then I’ll ring my parents and they will put my head in a spin. It’s hard when people you trust and know to be intelligent are anti vaccine…

I think you have to trust yourself on this one. There are many people who are intelligent and have a respectful background who still believe in this. For some reason, these people stopped thinking logically, or consumed by fear and in denial, or just afraid of the risk. I think ultimate decision has to come from you.

@OwletteGeckoCatboy

I think this is really interesting from an article I read today (written last year)

Behavioral scientists have long studied the idea of reactance, a concept pioneered by Jack Brehm in 1966. In his words, psychological reactance refers to the idea that when individual freedoms are “reduced or threatened with reduction,” people tend to be “motivationally aroused to regain” those freedoms. That is, when you tell me what to do, a part of me feels compelled to do the opposite.

Why are people being so cavalier in the face of clear instructions from the nation’s top scientists and public health experts?
For example, every parent knows that when you tell a child to do something, they seem almost biologically predisposed to doing the exact opposite thing. “Don’t run by the pool!” you shout. “Maybe I should try that…” they think. In short, when someone tells you how to behave, you feel your liberty threatened and “lash out” not only by ignoring the advice but by leaning into behavior that goes against what is being suggested. And while more work is needed to understand cultural differences in this domain, it seems possible that in countries like the U.S. that champion personal freedom as a virtue, people might be more predisposed to reactance behaviors than others.

In many instances, reactance is a quirk of human behavior that is simply frustrating or annoying, and sometimes even amusing. However, right now, reactance is deadly. The advice coming from public health experts to wash our hands, stay indoors, cancel even small-group events, and stay six to nine feet away from others (especially those who are sick) is based on a combination of science and an abundance of caution about a deadly virus we still don’t know a great deal about. So our desire to “push back” against this sound guidance is driving us toward behaviors that will strengthen the public health tsunami that is just around the corner.

Psychological reactance is also made worse by a number of other factors at this unique time. First, in recent years America has seen growing antipathy toward expertise and intellectualism in our public discourse. Increasingly, experts are branded cultural elites who snobbishly look down on the common man. This makes reactance a convenient way to stick it to the elites who are trying to stifle our freedom by dictating to the masses.

@Doublestar agree with you completely.

@OwletteGeckoCatboy I also think it’s a lot to do with individualism v’s altruism. We are an individualistic society and very much brought up to be free thinkers, to question etc. When restrictions are placed upon us, we tend to react against them.
However I do think the majority of the UK have recognised the importance of altruism - and have seen the need for restrictions/listened to the science.
There does seem to be a hardcore group who just refuse to see it - even when presented with indisputable proof.

I can understand vaccine hesitancy.

But I find the superior, hypocritical, I’d rather listen to discredited pseudoscience/highly controversial authors group - who are generally against masks/lockdown/vaccines/any type of restriction just baffling.

For some reason, these people stopped thinking logically

It's a shame people like you stopped learning how to be polite to those who think differently to you

So, come July when we're apparently to be released from restrictions, the reactance concept might mean that people contrarily continue with self limitation to go against the official narrative?

People who chose not to have the vaccine don't bother me. It's their body and they have the right of choice.

What I cannot abhor are people who spread misinformation, such as microchips, tests being spiked with covid, 5G causes covid.

It is nonsense and few people have the knowledge and skills to differentiate between this shit and reality.

What I cannot abhor are people who spread misinformation, such as microchips, tests being spiked with covid, 5G causes covid.

Playing devils advocate though, can you be 100% sure that this is misinformation?

No @MistressoftheDarkSide - because people will be free to make their own choices again. Personal freedom is back.

@Roonerspismed

Please remember there are always two sides and that FB itself suppressed any negative reports on the vaccines (and also any speculation it started in a lab!) so people are angry.

I don’t care what people do with the vaccine as long as they do so quietly. People are free to express opinions either way on FB and calling them idiots is just shutting debate. Why not listen to their concerns?

@Roonerspismed Facebook didn't suppress "negative" vaccine stories, they clamped down on misinformation about vaccines. No where near the same thing. Or do you have a valid source that states otherwise?

@mn2022

What I cannot abhor are people who spread misinformation, such as microchips, tests being spiked with covid, 5G causes covid.

Playing devils advocate though, can you be 100% sure that this is misinformation?

Um, yes?

I don’t think the queen is secretly a lizard either

@mn2022

What I cannot abhor are people who spread misinformation, such as microchips, tests being spiked with covid, 5G causes covid.

Playing devils advocate though, can you be 100% sure that this is misinformation?

The scientific fact can. I don't need to because I am not unhinged.

Must say that today, I feel more optimistic than ever. I think the July date was related to schools finishing for the summer.

But people have had the freedom to comply or not with guidance all along.

If we are told to crack on, nay encouraged and incentivised to do so, by the authorities, why wouldn't some take a contrary view to that in he same way? It stands to reason that whatever the state mandates or advises some will take the reactant position from a stistical point of view.

An example - shielding for the CEV has stopped being part of official policy as far as I understand it - yet many continue to do so in opposition to the official narrative. Isn't that a reactant position?

@chickenyhead

Aren't you a delight. Would rather be seen as unhinged than be someone like you

Thanks for your replies there has been some interesting things to read through. I don't think they're all idiots (although some are).

[quote mn2022]@chickenyhead

Aren't you a delight. Would rather be seen as unhinged than be someone like you [/quote]
Ditto

@Hornbill123456789 that’s a really interesting quote, could you link the article?

@OwletteGeckoCatboy I don’t really understand the ghoulish gleeful following both sides of the debate seem to have gathered. It doesn’t apply to everyone but I can’t understand really and truly believing people are harming themselves and taunting them about it and using information I trusted as a weapon.

I’ve always enjoyed a good conspiracy theory as entertainment but I’ve never seen such vitriol banded about like there is currently. I never thought I’d think this but these days I find myself questioning whether the internet is a good idea at all! At least in pre-internet days you actually had to put in some time and effort to research your argument instead of regurgitating the arguments of countless other peoples opinions.

tall any scientists who declared concerns about vaccines were silenced on FB, yes. As were those who suggested it escaped from a lab.

@Roonerspismed

tall any scientists who declared concerns about vaccines were silenced on FB, yes. As were those who suggested it escaped from a lab.

Can you give valid sources of this please?

@MistressoftheDarkSide freedom to comply or not - all along? Not really?

No - e.g you can’t shop without a mask, you can’t travel further than x miles or you get a fine, can’t go to work/school etc during lockdown. And then the freedom to dance protest at the weekend as nightclubs not open.

As an extreme opposite example China have been extremely compliant, and the Philippines government / talk of jail for those not having the vaccine. Because they are a more socialist society? Communist? But tend to obey rules/scared of what might happen if they defy.

We - quite rightly - wouldn’t stand for that as we are an individualistic society. And I think that is related to reactance.

If I say to DD ‘it’s bathtime’ I get reactance. It’s not something she wants to do. If I say let’s get an ice cream I get full compliance.

I certainly want her to question, be an individual, have freedom of choice. I also want her to see the impact of her behaviour on the rest of society and recognise that need for altruism where appropriate.

I guess the best place is a balance of both - and not to sway so far over to the individualistic side of the scale that she stops addressing the impact of her behaviour on others.
CEV you now have the choice - the restriction isn’t there - but those that are choosing to do it aren’t doing it to defy the government! They are doing it because they want to stay safe.

Or because they've been manipulated into such a State of Fear they feel they have no choice at all..... btw, how do you feel about the tactics of behavioural psychologists during the pandemic? You know, the ones who have publicly questioned the ethics of the policiesxthey helped formulate?