To Have This Virus Forever

[Dave20]

Just listened to Radio 2s Jeremy Vine show, about the prospect of living with covid forever, which Patrick Vallance has said will be.
Talk of social distancing forever, wearing masks forever and people working from home where they can, still.
Other ideas are staying at home if you’re ill until you have a test.
It’s utterly depressing. What about the financial costs? People having lots of sick leave because they have a cold, and don’t even have covid. People not isolating because they won’t get paid.
How will people form relationships and meet partners?
How can theatres and sporting venues operate with limited spectators?
What about not about ever shaking hands with people or giving people a hug?
What kind of future will our children have? Companies will be smaller meaning less opportunities.
The economic affect of people working at home in mass numbers,ditching the office, leaving ghost towns and pubs and restaurants closing, along with industries in hospitality.
Surely the death rate of covid can’t be worth sacrificing our kids futures? I’m sure even older people who are most at risk of dying wouldn’t want these measures forever?
The one thing I can’t understand is social distancing, the people who want it to stay forever! Many businesses rely on a full ‘house’ to stay open.

@nordica Fully agree with your reasoning.

We must remain flexible and understand that we’re treading an uncharted path and that no one truly knows what will happen next. Lamenting the economic impacts is going to get us nowhere, of course some industries are going to suffer, some irrevocably, but where one fails another will succeed.

We can not allow our thinking to be clouded by the idea that returning everything to precovid times will solve our problems. Yes children’s lives are going to be different to what we experienced but parents have a responsibility to make sure life now is not distorted as being second best or abnormal.

@Thewiseoneincognito life most definitely is not normal. This is not a ‘new normal’ we should all just accept. This is dystopian. We have a vaccine now it’s time to move forward. We cannot continue to be forced to wear masks, we cannot continue to keep children in ‘bubbles’ at school, we cannot continue to have limits on: gatherings, hugging, singing, dancing! For goodness sake, it terrifies me that there are people that are just ok to accept these things. 18 months ago if someone has suggested such restrictions may be imposed on us no one would have believed it.

@TheClaws

The government keep changing the goal posts with new variants.

Dave20 Do you think the Government just throws out a new variant when it feels public behaviour needs to be changed somewhat? You do recognise this pandemic is affecting the entire world - right?

But most places, unlike the UK, aren't welcoming in any and all new strains through our largely wide open borders.

Other countries, including now Ireland, restrict entry from high risk areas like the UK. (Ireland is advising against any but most essential travel to the UK).

Many other countries will be getting back to normal much sooner than the UK. Quite a few already are (foreign travel excepted).

We're also more likely than many other countries to keep the new normal. Other places took or are taking the measures needed to suppress and contain (border control, real quarantine, mask adherence etc) - which will allow them a return to proper normal.

Pret in the city centre may be suffering but the local cafes near where people live are thriving with the new lunch time trade now people are WFH.

Office related economy is huge - a major contributor to the economy of the UK as a whole. The country will suffer if those office related industries don't recover. A few little local cafes won't come close to compensating for the lost revenue.

Pret alone employs huge numbers of people. Many many people's livelihoods depend on the likes of Pret.

It's about much more than coffee shops. Cobblers, dry cleaners, transport including taxis (taking people to meetings), the meetings, conference, and events industries, caterers, office cleaners, postroom staff, sandwich shops, bars, restaurants.

And of course it's impossible to ignore the fact that full-time permanent WFH excludes vast sections of the population. It's only really a workable long term option for those privileged enough to have a spacious comfortable home environment. It's also mainly for those who are in a settled stage of life (work and family relationship wise).

Also, and importantly, WFH has been pretty crappy for customers and clients. I've experienced a definite lowering of standards and service.

I think we can learn some lessons from the fact we’ve dealt with lots and lots of really nasty infectious diseases through history, and we’ve not put long-term social distancing in place for any of them.

People are social animals. We don’t function well with everyone in little perspex boxes 2m apart. And what would even be the point once vaccines have taken the threat of mass death and overwhelmed NHS out of the picture? I’m sure there are some people who aren’t very social and have big houses and quite like living this way, but they aren’t in the majority.

I agree @GoldenOmber

Temporary measures required in a pandemic are very different from what is needed long term.

The Bank of America is starting to call for a return to offices in the US. They've realised how badly full-time permanent WFH would impact on the economy.

We're not in the same position as America virus wise because we didn't take the same measures, i.e. masks including outside, schools closed or hybrid learning, borders restricted to high risk countries like the UK.
But when we are in a better situation - when the majority are fully vaccinated - we need to follow their lead.

We didn’t close schools? Er…

In many US states, New York, for example, schools have been closed or with hybrid learning since last March.

I'm not necessarily saying we should have done the same. I mentioned it only for the people who look at America starting to open up and ask why we can't yet do the same. It's one of the measures they took that we didn't.

We had far, far stricter lockdown measures than America. I have friends in a few states and family in one and they had no travel restrictions, no limits on people you could have in your home, choose to form bubbles with whoever you like the whole way through, they had bars and restaurants open throughout. Some states were reopening strip clubs by last spring! I had cousins talking about how they are forming ‘pods’ to share homeschooling with other families, while I was legally forbidden from travelling more than 5 miles from my front door.

Longer school closures and outdoor masks are about the only things they were stricter on than we were. I think you and maybe many people don’t realise how strict the UK lockdowns were, and how unusual it is internationally to have had bans in place on visiting another household for months and months and months. It was shit, and that’s why it’s really not going to last.

There's less need for lockdowns if borders are restricted.

And, like I say, whilst I'm not necessarily arguing for it, their schools have been closed since last year, and the limited numbers that did go in wore masks (which were also worn outdoors).

We cannot possibly compare to America.

As for strict lockdown. In many European countries, there have been curfews. People have to be home after a certain time.

They also can't really visit any household they like. Unless they live very close to each other (which many families don't). There were limits on how far people could travel. People needed written evidence to leave home after curfew or travel further - and police checked.

We might have had longer repeated sort of lockdowns - but that's only because we didn't do anything else to not need them.

We can't moan about other countries being able to do more now when we didn't do what they did to get to that position. You put in hard work, you get the rewards.

A major thing is our lack of border control. Hence the most recent delay to fully opening up. We imported the Delta aka Johnson/Boris strain and let it spread.

You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think the US had stricter lockdowns than we did.

I didn't say their lockdowns were.

Because they choose other options (including schools closed and borders restricted - for over a year).

You think schools closed with just a small amount of hybrid learning for over a year isn't strict!?

Whether that's something we should have done or not is irrelevant. That action is very strict.

Have your cake and eat it?
No. We cannot tantrum about other countries opening up, when we didn't take the measures they did to be in the position to open up.

omg, Lockdown in most of USA was so light, so brief compared to in England. They are 'back to almost normal' now in CA & NY. Other Americans-live-in-UK are saying what a shock the situation is, no checks you are eligible to not quarantine, no one wearing masks although you know the unvacc'd are supposed to still mask up indoors. My uncle stepped off plane from Italy at height of their 2nd wave straight into ordinary community life in FL in 2020. My folks have been flying everywhere. Back to work & in restaurants months ago. Businesses constantly defying the control measures to open or not socially distance customers at all. And that's in good ol' lefty California.

Illinois rules sounded grim, though. Toddlers having to mask up all day at preschool/childcare. Eek.

We need to open up and get on with it, we can't carry on line this.

Less need for lockdowns when your borders are restricted.

Omg you want to be like America? You want schools closed for a year?

You think schools closed with just a small amount of hybrid learning for over a year isn't strict!?

I think when you’ve got restaurants, bars and strip clubs open, are fine with people zipping about the country on domestic flights and have no legal restrictions on household mixing or domestic travel, then no it’s not really an example of a country ‘doing the work’ while we couldn’t be arsed.

Shit for kids, though. Kids have certainly done more than their share of the work over there.

@twelly

We need to open up and get on with it, we can't carry on line this.

Well then we need to take the measures required to be able to open up.

Like other countries did.

You want to be like other countries? Then we need to do the same as them.

Don't want to do what they did? Then you can't expect to be like them.

You can't have it both ways.

I think the main measure America did that’s worked so well for them was to pour a lot of money and resource into Operation Warp Speed for vaccines, tbh. Moderna paid off very well for them.

None of this is sustainable. Look at the Scotland fans packing out Leicester Square/central London.

People aren't taking any notice anymore.

@Reallybadidea

Who has actually said that social distancing is going to be forever?

Professor Susan Michie who is on Sage. Utterly terrifying thought

Professor Susan Michie who is on Sage. Utterly terrifying thought

These guys are just coming across as cranks now. Most people I know are through with all this already.

@TheKeatingFive

Professor Susan Michie who is on Sage. Utterly terrifying thought

These guys are just coming across as cranks now. Most people I know are through with all this already.

You seem to be too, it’s all you ever go on about, almost like you’re trying to convince yourself or others.... 🙄

it’s all you ever go on about, almost like you’re trying to convince yourself or others

Never has a pot screamed ‘black’ louder.

Not sure what you’re worried about. As you’re so convinced we’ll be locking down forever, why are you even paying attention to what I post?