How can we open up whilst the requirement to self isolate exists

[frizzyandfrazzled]

Not a debate on the right time to come out of a lockdown more just an understanding of how it can be done with the testing and isolation requirements as they are?

A year group at school has just fallen, thankfully not mine. It could cause untold disruption to schools, workplaces like hospitals, councils and police forces if social distancing, masks and home working is dropped.

Surely this is a big problem even if, as we all hope, hospitalisations stay low?

Or was the plan that testing and/or isolation would end on June 21st too?

I’ve been wondering this myself the last couple of weeks, I’m now back working after maternity leave and I travel a lot. I’m expecting to be contact traced any day now, it seems inevitable as the cases go up! I thought I heard something about a trial of regular testing as a replacement for self isolation a few weeks ago..

It’s not sustainable. I am a healthcare professional and my sons nursery is closing due to staff having to isolate for the fourth time since January. That means I can’t go to work and do my job. I also have two primary school aged children and it’s only a matter of time before their classes get sent home. I now don’t get paid anymore when I am off as nhs trust has changed the rules and not made covid related childcare problems exempt. I am in a frontline clinical role which is difficult (impossible) to get cover staff for.

yanbu...

but obviously nearly all the covid controls are unsustainable.

the few that I can imagine reasonably persisting long term is mask-wearing for all health-care appointments or on hospital/GP premises, and home-quarantine for confirmed covid cases.

Rest, no.

Yes, this makes no sense. I fear the government are totally out of touch with the real world where in many cases both parents work.

Very good question.

It’s a very good question. It’s incredibly disruptive. Yes, isolating with confirmed covid. But close contact, surely this cannot go on. I’m sure I read somewhere there are trials going on where people are testing daily instead of isolating but even that’s a faff. I mean, better for sure but if we’ve been double vaccinated .. 🤷🏼‍♀️

It's inevitable that people will stop testing just to avoid isolating

I’ve been saying this for a while. Isolate if ill with covid makes sense, with any other illness you would hopefully take time off to recover but the close contact thing is unsustainable. I was hoping from 21 June it would stop but now I’m not sure. Like many people I don’t earn if I can’t work & more than that, the disruption is just frustrating now. We need to stay sensible but get back to normal. I would imagine some things like screens in shops, masks, antibac in shops etc will remain and hopefully help keep rates down.

Regular testing makes sense for the adult population, children though? Though they don't social distance now though and it's not too bad (though their contacts might still be down on normal?) Either way I'm sure this needs reviewing as we open up?!

That is an excellent question OP. In the next couple of months there are going to be huge numbers self isolating which will cause severe disruption. If infections are doubling ever 5 to 7 days with the delta variants r rate of 6 we will be back up to January numbers of infections in less than a month.

I agree. It's impossible for our DCs to receive an education with the constant threat of missing 10 days due to a positive contact and until all DC are vaccinated then it will continue to swirl around that population - much as minor colds used to do.

If it's good enough for Gove not to have to isolate after his football watching trip to Portugal then it should be good enough for others to get daily negative tests.

They have to do something before the start of the autumn term otherwise that's 3 educational years trashed.

@rookiemere

I agree. It's impossible for our DCs to receive an education with the constant threat of missing 10 days due to a positive contact and until all DC are vaccinated then it will continue to swirl around that population - much as minor colds used to do.

If it's good enough for Gove not to have to isolate after his football watching trip to Portugal then it should be good enough for others to get daily negative tests.

They have to do something before the start of the autumn term otherwise that's 3 educational years trashed.

By the start of Autumn, all adults will have been able to have had both vaccine doses. That's the time to scrap remaining restrictions/isolations. We really can't do it before then as those who became eligible for both doses won't have been vaccinated. Once all adults have had the opportunity of vaccination, then they have to bear the consequences if they've chosen not to and can continue their own precautions to keep themselves "safe" if they wish. At the moment we're still in limbo as lots of adults havn't yet had the opportunity to be vaccinated and it's therefore too soon to remove all restrictions/isolations etc.

Yes, it is putting me off going places that take contact tracing details. It's madness to have people isolating without a confirmed case themselves given how many people are vaccinated.

Has there been any analyses to show the impact of close contact isolations?

@Kazzyhoward I agree Autumn term would be the time to stop the self isolating based on contact for DCs, but I have little faith that it will happen. There will be some new variant because of foreign travel, or proportion of people vaccinated will not be high enough and/or deaths will rise. I feel do despondent- I don't mind too much about them having to wear masks at school, if that's the price to pay for them getting an acceptable ongoing face to face education, but it seems very never ending, particularly as all the vulnerable groups have had both vaccinations now.

@Wellbythebloodyhell

It's inevitable that people will stop testing just to avoid isolating

Can't come soon enough

It frustrates me because it hits children hardest. Adults leave fake details, don't put their mates on the track and trace form when they test positive etc. I'm even told to turn off the app at work. All this minimises the number of adults isolating but with primary age children it's just an automatic that all 30 or so go into isolation.

Has anyone seen stats on how many 'contacts' outside the household go onto develop Covid? Ie how successful is the scheme?

My DCs have isolated three times now and not a single individual in the bubble has gone into develop covid. I know that's not the case everywhere but I'd love to understand how many cases are prevented vs the number of children isolating.

I'm on this trial now so I'm doing LFT daily and am allowed to go out for essential activities if it's -ve even though DS tested positive early this week.

www.gov.uk/guidance/daily-contact-testing-study

@Mumski45 ah that's interesting good they're looking at trialing these things.

[quote Mumski45]I'm on this trial now so I'm doing LFT daily and am allowed to go out for essential activities if it's -ve even though DS tested positive early this week.

www.gov.uk/guidance/daily-contact-testing-study[/quote]
This is great, I hope it works out and that we hear the results soon

I agree it’s ridiculous. I have no fear of getting covid- I live in terror of last minute my children having to isolate for 10 days and the impact on our family and finances. They can’t scrap the isolating as a contact soon enough for me.

If there was a chance I could vaccinate my medically vulnerable 11 year old ds, who spent a year shielding, and other children like him, then I could contemplate it... otherwise no.

It impacts school children and primary/nursery school staff horrifically.

@frizzyandfrazzled

Not a debate on the right time to come out of a lockdown more just an understanding of how it can be done with the testing and isolation requirements as they are?

A year group at school has just fallen, thankfully not mine. It could cause untold disruption to schools, workplaces like hospitals, councils and police forces if social distancing, masks and home working is dropped.

Surely this is a big problem even if, as we all hope, hospitalisations stay low?

Or was the plan that testing and/or isolation would end on June 21st too?

Like many things with this government, it wasn't thought through.

The original expectation was that by June 21st, infection numbers would be very very low and falling.

In the context of rapidly rising cases though, it makes no sense to open things up AND keep on with testing/isolation measures - the system would be quickly overwhelmed anyway.

Either we decide that infection numbers no longer matter, or we decide they do. If the former then we open up with no more tests/isolation. If the latter, then we just don't open up!

I went to a garden centre cafe at the weekend, planning to sit outside. You had to go inside to order. They wanted me to scan the QR code with the NHS app or leave the names and numbers of all 3 of us - including my under 16 year old - before we could be served. I was not going to risk a 10 day isolation to have a drink outside in a garden centre, so we left.

@fortyfifty yes I don't understand the need for contact details when you're outside and 2 metres or more apart from people.

I was asked to log my details when using toilets inside the other day, despite eating outside at distanced tables. I put in fake details because I was desperate for a wee, but if I'm likely to catch coronavirus from a one minute toilet visit where I'm not in contact with anyone else, then the risk is much higher than we've been told.