EU countries/EFTA: holidaying in each other’s countries this summer. What is Covid and what is Brexit!

[Sunnyfreezesushi]

Speaking to my friends in Switzerland, Germany and France they all seem confident that they will be going on holiday to eg Spain, Italy etc this summer. Here we seem to be told the opposite, don’t holiday in an amber country/essential travel only.

If EU countries open to each other does this U.K. government really think there won’t be a massive backlash especially from those who were anti-Brexit in the first place. The Covid/Brexit line seems to be getting increasingly blurred. Portugal big political mess up too as they hold the EU presidency. So what is health and what is Brexit? Can someone please explain.

Well we have a lot of the delta/Indian variant here.

If I was in charge of other countries I 100% would not want British people wandering around my populace potentially seeding these variants.

@marmite27- and the Indian variant arrived in larger numbers because India wasn’t on the red list in a timely manner because of Brexit and Johnson’s desperation for a trade deal... the point is they are entirely politicising health and that is not OK.

In fact, it was a U.K. idea to introduce “sh.t”
lists last summer... this is what my friends say, other EU countries then copied the notion but I don’t think they will this summer, I think they will be open to each other with no quarantine/some testing/vaccination and that will include Norway and Switzerland etc.

The Indian variant here will be bigged up in the interests of Brexit and thousands in the travel industry will lose their jobs and our government will suddenly backtrack too late. Or are they trying to show us indirectly that they need to sign up to closer terms with the EU, who knows.
My point stands that they are entirely politicising Covid to suit their agenda, whatever that is.

The EU countries will be open to each other on a 'Corona Passport' basis, so you'll need to have been vaccinated, infected in the last few months etc.

But otherwise, yes, it's already been agreed and announced.

The idea that the UK is somehow to blame for these lists is ridiculous though!

I think the Brexit and Health lines are more defined than they appear, aside from the possibly dodgy motives behind keeping India off the red list too long. But everything is so emotive right now that they appear blurry.

I live in the EU, but I'm British and fiercely anti-Brexit. I don't blame Brexit for this sad situation though. I love the multicultural aspect of the UK, and if that led to a lot of people of Indian ethnicity visiting family and unwittingly bringing the variant over here in force, I think that's a savagely cruel twist of fate more than anything.

I wondered if there would be a backlash. I’m British but also EU resident and am on a few fb groups, eg: for Disneyland Paris, and the Brits are really annoyed that they might not be able to go to, especially as a lot of them have annual passes and as the park is open they don’t get a refund.

It must be Brexit because otherwise they’d still be pet of the EU and therefore doing the same thing with travel, no?

Part of the EU, not Pet! But of a Freudian slip there

No idea idea. Both Brexit and covid are utter pants.

What was Germany or Netherlands or France policy towards allowing travellers from India in the period 4-30 April 2021? Did travellers from India have to quarantine upon arrival to any of those countries in that period?

I think that it's more subtle than that. More to do with the whims of individual country leaders and certain personalities trying to prove a point. I see no logic in Varadkar's decision to continue restricting entries from the UK yet opening to the rest of the EU-27 (all of whom have higher case rates than the UK, in some cases substantially so) so the decision must have been political. Remember that Ireland is part of a Common Travel Area with the UK, so Schengen is not relevant, Ireland could close its border to the continent quite easily if it so wished. More of an exercise in showmanship than anything to do with virus precautions.

Some countries rely heavily upon tourism, of which the British are a major customer. So they are likely to want us in. Indeed, France opens to international tourists next week, including British tourists who have been vaccinated. The real problem will be whether our own government will impose restrictions upon us on our return.

Open borders in EU countries with the Schengen agreement don't allow them to close off borders without a lot of legal and logistic difficulty, eg you may have to post police officers or border guards in many people's back gardens or farmyards, since many borders run across privately owned fields and backyards. Rather like attempting to stop people driving from England to Wales, or stopping people from walking from Scotland into England.

The eu is not one big entity. It is made of individual countries that do their own thing.

I live in a Scandinavian eu country. No-one i know is travelling abroad. The recommendations are no non-essential travel to all countries (and people follow them here). We can't even get into our closest neighbours without a vaccination certificate or negative test plus self-isolation.

In Germany you could still travel to Mallorca without quarantine while the country was still in full lockdown with a 9pm curfew in many cities and schools closed. I had friends nipping back and forth from Luxembourg and France. Right now I have friends in Italy, Spain, and Portugal. Just flew back from Mallorca yesterday and the airport had queues snaking all around the building for check-in. Flights leaving every 5 minutes to all over Europe. Our flight was slightly delayed and we spent 40 minutes on the tarmac waiting for a slot for take-off.

Meanwhile back in Germany we've only just been allowed back in outdoor pubs/restaurants and that's with proof of a negative test.

@lljkk

What was Germany or Netherlands or France policy towards allowing travellers from India in the period 4-30 April 2021? Did travellers from India have to quarantine upon arrival to any of those countries in that period?

www.rfi.fr/en/international/20210422-india-hits-world-s-highest-covid-surge-placed-on-travel-red-list-france-britain-hong-kong-oxygen-shortage-hospitals-double-mutant-variant

Hit enter too soon:

1. Not sure if that quarantine is managed or not.

1. Due historic reasons there are fewer flights per week between France and India than between India/UK.

thanks loginfail.
So France announced iNdia was going on France equivalent of red list on 22 April, UK put India on redlist on 23 April.

Germany announced India was going on their own red list equivalent on 24 April.

Italy imposed similar rules. about 26 April

Indonesia imposed restrictions on 23 April

Singapore didn't impose its strictest quarantine rules for travellrs from India until 21 April

Ireland was getting complaints why India not on their hotel-Qtine list on 15 April.

But heyho, so much funner to say it was "obvious to everyone" by 7 April that Indian variant was huge looming threat & India should go on UK redlist then.

Chatting with a friend whose husband is a civil servant today, she was saying that there are many in govt who want to blanket ban all foreign travel this year (Hancock) because they are scared of scenes of busy airports and people mixing at airports and they’ve done absolutely nothing to prepare for that. I suppose most EU countries have a lot of car and train arrivals so not as much of an issue.
Of course this is only second hand hearsay, the official line is that everywhere is horribly dangerous right now, even if (like grenada) they haven’t had a covid case in months, and even for the double vaccinated.

@QuentininQuarantino

Chatting with a friend whose husband is a civil servant today, she was saying that there are many in govt who want to blanket ban all foreign travel this year (Hancock) because they are scared of scenes of busy airports

That's interesting because there's certainly been talk for some time amongst those with an ear to the ground on what is going on in the airports that the Home Secretary isn't keen on an increase in foreign travel for exactly the same reason.

With e-gates out of use "Border" simply don't have the resources to cope if numbers travelling increase if there's still a need to do a 100% manual document check..

I think this is an example of where health, politics and history have all converged this summer.

Farage’s script was all about loosening ties with Europe and building stronger ties to the commonwealth. A lot of Brexiteers interpreted that to mean keep foreigners out but it also means an enhanced border with mainland Europe and increase trade, immigration and travel with places like India, Malaysia, Nigeria etc.

In terms of COVID hitting India hard this spring, the historic ties, which are strengthened by Brexit, meant more seeding here earlier of the year delta variant and risk both in Britain’s and in Europe of further spread if travel is not contained.

This might still have been the case without Brexit though.

I think this is an advantage of Brexit.

This year is not the year for travelling.

I understand people need to visit families and I am not against that at all, but if Brexit means that EU countries ban us then good.

The UK government are not strong enough to do the right thing - which is to put all EU countries, and the vast majority of other countries on the red list.

I am anti Brexit BTW but too many people want their 2 weeks in the sun and dam the consequences for everyone else.

Brexit means that EU countries ban us then good. ```

In terms of border controls as a result of Covid Brexit doesn't provide any advantage and really enter into it one way or the other...

FWIW there have been selective travel bans or selective restrictions put in place between various existing EU countries, on and off, over the last year.

In terms of border controls as a result of Covid Brexit doesn't provide any advantage and really enter into it one way or the other...

I disagree. EU have treated UK differently now that it is not a member state or in transition period.

The UK has very weak border controls in place and will continue to do so. We need to rely on other countries banning us.

We can't even get into our closest neighbours without a vaccination certificate

Yes, but that's part of the point. We're not being allowed to travel even WITH vaccination proof.

I think they'll struggle this year to ban travel to Europe especially - there will be massive uproar if everyone else in countries with large vaccination programmes starts saying 'proof of vaccination and you're free'. Why should we be any different? As soon as most adults have been offered a vaccine (and we'll be there in about 2 weeks I think), that's it. We have been sold vaccination as the way out, they need to come through on it. Despite variants.

I’m feeling a bit of an idiot. Booked a fucking AirBnB in Cyprus on Friday, bought flights too.

Had assumed if you can buy it it’s ok to go, but it’s actually a fucking nightmare. What’s the point of Amber? If Govt and FCO say no, then surely travel providers shouldn’t be able to sell the bloody holiday.

The accommodation is ok to get refund, but not the flights. What do we do? Cancel now and just swallow it, or hope either things get bad again, and they ban overseas travel, or go the other way and open it up! I know it’s entirely my fault, I’m sat with a seething husband for £800 worth of flights.

What a bloody mess, oh for some firm lines in the sand

Well Spain has no restrictions against British tourists and Amber doesn't mean illegal. As long as you're happy to quarantine, go for it.

What a daft system.

Had assumed if you can buy it it’s ok to go, but it’s actually a fucking nightmare. What’s the point of Amber? If Govt and FCO say no, then surely travel providers shouldn’t be able to sell the bloody holiday.

But you didn't buy a 'holiday'. You bought flights and accommodation seperately. It's not illegal to fly to Cyprus - you just have to quarantine on your return. It's not up to the Air BnB host to check the ever changing British travel regulations before agreeing to rent a place. That's your responsibility.