EU countries/EFTA: holidaying in each other’s countries this summer. What is Covid and what is Brexit!

[Sunnyfreezesushi]

Speaking to my friends in Switzerland, Germany and France they all seem confident that they will be going on holiday to eg Spain, Italy etc this summer. Here we seem to be told the opposite, don’t holiday in an amber country/essential travel only.

If EU countries open to each other does this U.K. government really think there won’t be a massive backlash especially from those who were anti-Brexit in the first place. The Covid/Brexit line seems to be getting increasingly blurred. Portugal big political mess up too as they hold the EU presidency. So what is health and what is Brexit? Can someone please explain.

I don't think the traffic light situation is that confusing.

It's not illegal to travel to an Amber list country.

You need to self isolate when you return.

Your insurance may not cover you when away as not advised.

Many people will travel to Amber countries if they have a 2nd home or can self isolate when they return.

Many people will simply holiday in an Amber list country and not bother to self isolate when they get home.

I'm afraid you will just have to bite the cost, unless Cyprus bans flights from UK. Either that or go and isolate when you return.

But really booking any 'holiday' at the moment is risky.

@Peacelillyhippy

The eu is not one big entity. It is made of individual countries that do their own thing.

I live in a Scandinavian eu country. No-one i know is travelling abroad. The recommendations are no non-essential travel to all countries (and people follow them here). We can't even get into our closest neighbours without a vaccination certificate or negative test plus self-isolation.

This is very true. I also live in a Scandi EU country that has, until recently, had the army guarding the usually unmanned border crossings to prevent residents of the neighbouring Scandi country from entering. The neighbours have their own Military on their side .....

@Wakeupin2022

In terms of border controls as a result of Covid Brexit doesn't provide any advantage and really enter into it one way or the other...

I disagree. EU have treated UK differently now that it is not a member state or in transition period.

The UK has very weak border controls in place and will continue to do so. We need to rely on other countries banning us.

I'm struggling with that TBH...you want the EU to control UKs Borders??

Just for context I live a (long) bike ride's distance from an internal EU border. Last year for several weeks month plus at the height of the first Covid wave it was closed by national authorities to all but essential travel and it was most was definitely policed.

There have been restrictions, again policed, on and off on on the Border between France and Germany, France and Belgium...much to the annoyance of people living on one side of the line but who shop and:or work on the other....

Individual EU nations, even those signed up to the Schengen agreement have always been able to put extra controls in place for national security/health reasons..

I’m aware it’s my responsibility, which I think I mentioned twice in my post, was just venting some frustration. Yes, I should have looked into it more deeply, and have paid the price to ensure compliance (moved flights a year and cancelled the other bits). Package holidays are still being sold, to brits by uk companies so it’s not as cut and dried as some think. If no travel for leisure why still allow that very thing to be sold?

Rhetorical, I know I didn’t book package etc etc

Ditto, also living a bike ride away from a Schengen border, currently you need to Show a negative pcr test to cross over it unless you can prove you live within 30km of the border. It isn’t really policed though, they tend to only check number plates from out of the region. But there’s a police presence.

Incidentally, the route is one of the main migrant routes people take to travel up through to Calais, often the French police return people to this side of the border as it their right to do so under their EU treaty - Britain now unable to do the same to the ones who made it to Dover.

loginfail no I don't think the EU should police the UK borders. I do think the UK govt are woeful re the decisions they have made re UK border. They are 2 different things.

I do think the UK being outside of the EU has made it easier for EU member states to make it more difficult for travel between EU member states / UK.

Ireland for example will soon allow travel but the rules for Brits will be different for EU citizens. That is as a result of Brexit!

I'm not complaining. The fewer people that travel the better. But its the decisions of EU countries to ban or make it harder for British travellers to visit that will help the situation in the UK.

I am just looking at the rules for Switzerland (EFTA country) from 1 June. UK travellers are not permitted entry at all.
Swiss nationals living in the UK trying to go to Switzerland have to do a PCR test and quarantine for 10 full days, regardless of vaccination status. BUT Schengen country nationals if vaccinated do not need to quarantine and do not need a PCR test. So essentially UK now has the same status as Brazil and India, a proper red list country. If UK were still in Schengen, I highly doubt Switzerland would have done this. So that is my point really. The Swiss might be concerned about the Indian variant coming from the UK but previously they would not have politically been able to treat the UK like this, especially not their own nationals living in the UK.

Also I bet the EU are looking at the UK thinking OK you want our nationals to largely all quarantine for 10 days and pay for 3 tests minimum (day 2, day 8 and on entry) so the EU are going to do the same back to the UK.
However, there are still so many EU nationals living and working in the UK, many on minimum wage jobs in the care sector, nursing, building etc - I reckon this will be another impetus to leave for good. So yeah, the Tories are going all out on using Covid to reinforce Brexit. However, the jobs won’t be filled and we will be a lot worse off come the autumn. I am in London, care homes, restaurants and cleaning agencies can no longer fill their vacancies. So frankly, I do not care what the civil servants want this summer, none of it makes sense if our closest neighbours are going to all have one set of rules and we end up with another.

@Sunnyfreezesushi do they have to pay for their own hotel quarantine? If it’s just a home quarantine then it’s more of an equivalent to somewhere between the green and amber list that the uk has.

The UKs amber list is a 10 day home quarantine with one test on arrival and two more on days 2 and 8. You MUST use one of the governments —donors— approved sellers which are selling them at very high prices. This process is the same regardless of vaccination status.

You could almost think the govt are encouraging profit from private PCR tests, especially when they only ask for lateral flow for kids at school....

@QuentininQuarantino- the Swiss don’t have a concept of hotel quarantine. Their red list is strict home quarantine which means the people you quarantine with have to quarantine unless they can prove separate living areas/bathrooms etc at all times. The cantons oversee it very strictly and fines are imposed. The point is U.K. is a red list country along with Brazil, South Africa, Canada, India and Nepal. That is it- we are seen as outside Europe with a massive Variant of concern. I mean no Turkey or Vietnam etc on that list. So that is what we are like now - but I think it must be political too.

Oh I see. Meanwhile in Spain any Brit can enter, vaccinated or not, without even a lateral flow test!

@Bunnyfuller

You could almost think the govt are encouraging profit from private PCR tests, especially when they only ask for lateral flow for kids at school....

Nope- they are just making sure that people fund their own holidays, NOT the tax payer.

I take it with all this talk of Britain being on red lists people are aware that some EU countries are considering or actually are relaxing the rules for those travelling from the UK?

www.euronews.com/travel/2021/06/04/france-scraps-quarantine-for-fully-vaccinated-us-and-uk-visitors-from-june-9

TBH being selfish for a moment I'm not sure it's a great idea but that aside I'm not sure how that ties in with some of the theories being expressed upthread.

The taxpayer is paying for all the mass testing at events in big stadiums.

@loginfail - France are treating the UK like the US not like other Schengen/EU countries. France do also rely on tourism and know UK/US vaccination rates are high so that is what they are doing. Not sure what happens to families and children over 11 e.g. do vaccinated parents not have to self isolate but their over age 11 children do.

Italy here.
We’re going on national holidays this year until we can be sure we have EU COVID cards based on both doses of vaccine or immunity after infection. 2 adults and one 15yo.

We’ve also booked the UK in December and are curious to see what restrictions we need to comply with.
A mutually acceptable COVID Card seems the logical answer, but is that too close to kowtowing for Boris and Co.?

Thing I can’t get my head round is, if you’re an EU national living in the UK then which rules apply to you? It really isn’t clear. So yes, it’s Brexit and COVID all muddled together.

if you’re an EU national living in the UK then which rules apply to you?

That comment made made and go look at some of the UK gov stuff on the and I can see there's scope for ...

I offer into evidence the very beginning of:

www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-advice-novel-coronavirus
Travel abroad and coronavirus (COVID-19)

"Guidance for British people travelling abroad during the coronavirus pandemic....... "

Further down the page:

"We are monitoring the international situation closely and keeping our advice under constant review, so that it reflects our latest assessment of risks to British people." (my emphasis)..

I'd have to check but I think the wording on our national sites is usually "residents of...", and then sometime caveats about nationality if that's relevant...

Hmmm yes although I was referring to the latest french rules... double vaccinated EU citizens don’t need a negative test to travel to France. Well I will soon be a double vaccinated EU citizen BUT I live in the UK! It’s very hard to understand some of the rules. And I do try.

Ah, does this help?

uk.ambafrance.org/Strategy-for-reopening-of-borders-from-9-June-onwards

The PDF contained within has full details...

AFAIK since you will have travelled from the UK you will need the negative test.

Thank you, @loginfail!

But heyho, so much funner to say it was "obvious to everyone" by 7 April that Indian variant was huge looming threat & India should go on UK redlist then

why the fascination with what other countries do? is that all Brexitiers can do nowadays?
Thought Brexit was about what the UK can do "free of the shackles" of the EU lol!

The UK put Pakistan on the red list when they had infection rates why lower than India, only putting India on the RL when rates were double that of Pakistan.
This is from Govt own figures and was put to Hancock yesterday, he denied his own dept's figures.

It was all about not offending India before the free trade talks.