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Extending the school day

186 replies

LemonSherbetFancies · 01/06/2021 12:37

What are your thoughts on this?
Many are saying it is pointless and won't achieve much if an extra half hour or so is tagged onto the end of the day. Others have said that it should be based more on sports and free choice activities but my thinking is, isn't that what after school clubs are for?

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 01/06/2021 22:06

Spanish schools do fewer hours than UK schools so that's odd. In fact, all of Europe does.

UmaTheUnbelievable · 01/06/2021 22:11

The media are reporting this as I it were a done deal.Is it?

Lemonandlime123 · 01/06/2021 22:16

I'm also really surprised by the amount of schools who have shortened the school day. I thought the guidance specified that you should stagger start/finish times but were not allowed to shorten the total length of the day?

AnonAnom940 · 01/06/2021 22:16

How many years will the proposed extended hours to on for? What about new starters in reception in subsequent years who's education has so far been unaffected by Covid (as they are too young to be at school yet). Will reception class of 2023,24,25 etc have extended hours or will they start with the original hours and continue with that through their schooling?

sherrystrull · 01/06/2021 22:23

Most schools have staggered drop off and pick up times which appear that the day has shortened.

A previous poster mentioned that breaktimes etc have been adjusted because of this.

This is my experience. We don't do assemblies or have an afternoon break so actually the children get more teacher time than before covid.

Undertheoldlindentree · 01/06/2021 22:23

Yes, would welcome this for secondary. Y10 DD has been identified as falling behind during Covid and not likely to get a good pass in Maths or English. Yet there are so many like this in her school that she's not eligible for support programme. Extra classes might help this group.

CallmeHendricks · 01/06/2021 22:25

They've been after extending the school day/terms for years. They've finally found the perfect excuse to attempt to shoehorn it in.
Watch this space though. I will expect this when I see it in practice.

meditrina · 01/06/2021 22:26

And will they then change the very short lunch break many state schools get to the full hour or more most private schools get? And change the holidays too?

Lunch - up to the school - not all are meagre

Holidays - no, this (if it happens) is intended to be a temporary addition for catch up purposes, not an enduring change

And where will the money come for the staff to plan, prep, teach and possibly have to assess these extra hours?

I expect it won't. I haven't seen any announcements about funding for a catch up programme - whether it's done like this or some other way

The pandemic has brought extra demands (both during and in tackling backlog) and been pretty shit for many workers, including teachers.

But what are the alternatives? No catch up at all? Or only when money can be found?

Restlessinthenorth · 01/06/2021 22:26

@Piggywaspushed well...my school definitely did not. Apologies that you find that odd! In fact the school days varied considerably across Spain when I was at school (not sure if that's the same now). We were in by 8.30 and finished at 5 (although with a longer lunch break where we sat and ate a very good quality lunch together). There was also a good deal more homework than in the UK.

Katjolo · 01/06/2021 22:36

Such a waste of time. Completely pointless. Invest money in smaller class sizes and more teaching/ support staff.

colouringcrayons · 01/06/2021 22:41

ITV News just said they were announcing more 'tutoring' tomorrow, not an extended school day, with Tories putting in £1.5bn which = £50 per pupil, which seems 'modest'

Piggywaspushed · 01/06/2021 22:42

Yes, but that's not recent is it? I went to school for longer too but I don't think it is worth comparing! How long were your holidays??

Piggywaspushed · 01/06/2021 22:44

Yeah they pissed me off by missing out the crucial info that schools and universities combined missed more in person teaching than any other European country. I would love to know what happens when you take the unis out.

Restlessinthenorth · 01/06/2021 22:48

@Piggywaspushed it's worth comparing because I was not exhausted by 2.30pm, as so many are describing on this thread. I raised the point as we seem to have very low expectations around what children can cope with, and what they are learning to cope with. I wish my kids could have some extra time in school; they definitely need it after the last year.

MargaretThursday · 01/06/2021 22:51

How does that work?

The secondary schools round here have 1hour lessons.

The primary school children are tired when they come out and can't imagine 30 minutes more will be productive.

Are teachers going to get a rise in pay accordingly-for example 30 minutes more child care a day will cost.
What about teachers/parents that have other commitments that will have to be moved?

It sounds like another of the "great ideas with no thought into the practicalities" which will fall by the wayside.

Piggywaspushed · 01/06/2021 22:51

Perhaps that is to do with what is happening in the day.

I don't think 2.30 is representative of a school day end, that said. And I think people are talking about tinies there. Any 4/5 year old is tired at 2.30. Again, most other countries don't bung kids in formal school at 4 years of age.

motherrunner · 01/06/2021 22:54

My DC are in school from 7.30-5 each day (breakfast and after school club). No they’re not tired when they come home, and attend mid week and weekend extra curricular activities, but their extra 3 hours a day in school isn’t academic. I think they would be very different children if they were being taught from 7.30-5 every day.

jumpbounce · 01/06/2021 23:05

I live in an area which has much shorter school days and I'm not sure what the timings would be in England if the school day was extended 3pm/3.30/4pm but honestly if young children 4-10ish year old were expected to be in school for those long hours everyday, I would home educate.
So much talk about the mental health of children but no acknowledgement it would seem that they aren't just mini adults and therefore a week of school with similar timings to a full time job isn't going to do much to achieve positive mental health.
Children need time to be children, time for down time, time to play and explore and to have lives outside of school and for many young children it would be school, home, dinner and then straight to bed, rinse repeat.

Mathshelpme · 01/06/2021 23:30

@Anawi

I think it would be the final straw for a lot of teachers who are already close to breaking point. I wouldn't want my three children doing a longer day, the children I teach are past it by about 2.30pm never mind adding an extra hour to the day. I would very seriously contemplate resigning and home educating my own children, as would several other teachers I know, we can't be the only ones! It won't happen anyway, like someone else said,it would require extra funding, the government wouldn't even give schools a few £ extra to pay for hand sanitiser over the last year sooooo... no chance, all hot air.
To be honest, it wouldn’t make that much difference to me. My school finishes at 3.15pm, but I usually leave around 4pm as I stay to mark and plan. I’d probably have the kids do a poster or let them go on the computers for the additional time, so I could still get my work done. The problem would be the poor quality learning that would be happening during that time.

I believe that targeted intervention is far more likely to have an impact on all sorts of children, from the SEN to the MAT. It could be done during the normal school day and children would still have the freedoms to attend their own after school clubs.

1dayatatime · 01/06/2021 23:43

Personally i think if the Government has the funds to spend on extending the school day then I would rather they spend it on:

  1. ensuring every pupil from primary to 18 can have free breakfast at the start of the school day
  2. ensure that all schools have the necessary staff to teach
  3. ensure that going there is adequate mental health support in schools for pupils that are struggling
  4. reintroduction in England of the Educational Maintenance Allowance for underprivileged 16 to 18 year olds (I.e the same as in Wales)

What is needed is stability for both pupils and teachers alike not yet more off the hoof policies like putting an extra 30 mins on the school day that will probably never happen anyway but will create further uncertainty .

Mathshelpme · 01/06/2021 23:46

Our school needed to find money for core catch-up...so we made our media, psychology and textiles teachers redundant. Less subjects for children to opt for at GCSE and A Level...that’s the way it goes when schools have to squeeze more from nothing and that’s what will continue to happen when schools have to pay core teachers more to teach longer. Say goodbye to the enrichment and creative subjects, which just so happen to not be mandatory.

LovelyLadyLily · 02/06/2021 01:02

@1dayatatime

Personally i think if the Government has the funds to spend on extending the school day then I would rather they spend it on:
  1. ensuring every pupil from primary to 18 can have free breakfast at the start of the school day
  2. ensure that all schools have the necessary staff to teach
  3. ensure that going there is adequate mental health support in schools for pupils that are struggling
  4. reintroduction in England of the Educational Maintenance Allowance for underprivileged 16 to 18 year olds (I.e the same as in Wales)

What is needed is stability for both pupils and teachers alike not yet more off the hoof policies like putting an extra 30 mins on the school day that will probably never happen anyway but will create further uncertainty .

Exactly. And I'd add that I'd like to see the money going on recruiting and RETAINING excellent teachers (the staff dropout rate is abysmal) including listening to what teachers need. And into reducing class sizes, because 30 minutes for an average class size of 30 means that each child gets 1 minute more attention from the teacher per day. Not really worth it anyway.
RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 02/06/2021 01:11

I don't know how schools have reduced learning time because of covid, let alone deciding to make those fewer learning hours a permanent thing. Teachers have directed hours as part of their contract - 1265 hours a year - we have to work them.

Every school I know has changed the day around if they needed to for staggered drop offs and pick ups/social distancing etc. If they had to do that, then the school day breaks were reduced or increased to compensate. I get 45 minutes less break from contact time at the moment between 8.30 and 2.45, than I did between 8.40 and 3.15. Might feel to the parents that we finish really early, but the day is most definitely 'done' by 2.45. Kids are done for learning by 1.30 I'd say. My own child's school hasn't changed their hours, but every classroom has its own door to the playground, so no need to stagger anything. If I discharged my class straight out of the classroom down they'd drop 4 storeys.

I find it really interesting to hear how exhausted so many people find children to be by 2.30. My primary aged children definitely aren't.

Mine isn't exhausted for running around outside, playing lego, singing, dancing etc... but she can't retain any new information. She's already spent 5 hours retrieving recently learned information, and being exposed to new learning however, that's plenty of cognitive load for one day.

If I'm going to get paid 8% more for working 8% more hours, then fine. But I'd work just those hours. Goodwill has been somewhat sucked dry over the last 18 months.

motherrunner · 02/06/2021 07:14

As PP suggested, doubt it will go ahead:

“There had been reports that a recovery plan could include a longer school day - but funding for any further catch-up proposals will depend on the next spending review.”

Also, I’m getting pretty angry about this huge sum schools are receiving but 3 weeks ago the Government slashed the Pupil Premium budget. So much for helping the more disadvantaged!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57320450

motherrunner · 02/06/2021 07:21

Also from the article : The BBC has learned a much bigger and more ambitious plan costing just over £10bn was still under discussion between government departments as recently as last week but this was rejected by the Treasury.
Sources close to the talks said the Treasury was reluctant to sign off on such a big upfront commitment.

So our young will have to make do with £50 each. It’s an insult.