Work from home if you can should stay in place, surely?

[Ninefeettall]

Just thinking about June 21st and Boris said as recently as yesterday or the day before that 'Work from home if you can' will be scrapped from 21 June. Surely if the Indian variant is a problem (which we don't know for sure yet) then this is a really, really, really easy win? 'If you can' doesn't have to include people who need to be in the office for mental health reasons or who can't work properly from home, but there are vast numbers of young, unvaccinated or partially vaccinated office workers who have now been working from home for a year, doing their jobs perfectly well if not better who could just keep doing that and not add to the commuters or office workers spreading the variant about.

The Keating five
Yes, it is a ridiculous extrapolation but honestly it's all some people seem to care about, it's very infuriating. A very large minority, myself included, can't afford coffee or lunch out and about

Goldenomber
If the shops which open aren't coffee shops that's amazing. If the money spent in local areas creates space for other types of business to thrive that's awesome

Itwaslikethatwgenigothere
I have noticed this too, I think it's wonderful people can finally afford to fix the things which are broken, no longer having to make do with second best. It's wonderful that new jobs are being created as a result. Thankfully in kinder less polluting and exploitational industries than that of coffee.

honestly it's all some people seem to care about

I dont see this at all.

If people aren’t spending on ludicrously expensive pret sandwiches to line the (often tax avoiding) pockets of the super wealthy, that money doesn’t just go into a vacuum. It will be spent on something else. The economy will be different but who’s to say worse? Booming local building trade is a good thing as far as I’m concerned, for example.

If the shops which open aren't coffee shops that's amazing. If the money spent in local areas creates space for other types of business to thrive that's awesome

Businesses thrive when they have customers who want what they’re selling. WFH might mean more people spending more time within shopping distance of their local high street but it doesn’t follow that they’ll head out to spend their money there just because they’re not spending it on coffees and lunches near their office any more. They might save more, they might shop online more.

I do agree it would be good to see more struggling towns and villages revived, and more small local businesses, but I think that’s going to take more than an increased number of people WFH somewhere in the vicinity.

Frankly it’s hard to feel any sympathy for the city centre businesses and transport businesses. Maybe if it hadn’t taken people ages to get to work on a disgustingly packed train that cost them a big whack of their salary, and maybe if their lunch hadn’t been criminally overpriced then it wouldn’t be so easy - and tempting - to walk away from.

I suspect a significant amount of money not being spent in pret or the like is being redirected to amazon. Not exactly progress.

‘City centre businesses’ is not just Pret and Starbucks as far as they eye can see. It’s a lot of different businesses and a lot of people working there.

When I worked in an office in a city, the takeaway coffee place I went to most often was a small, non-chain business that did great coffee. WFH in a town, my nearest coffee place is a Costa. Nearest place to buy a ready-made sandwich is Tesco.

@5usa

‘Secondly. People really need to remember that for anyone below fifty and not extremely vulnerable this is a totally benign virus.’

Yes @Bluntness100. Ffs! This thread! I cannot believe how happy some are to have their lives curtailed in such a way. You could get cancer tomorrow. Have a car accident. Trip over in the house in 5 mins time and have life changing injuries. We cannot stay in our houses indefinitely, it’s damaging people, culture and the economy beyond recognition.

In my circle the people coping the best are the ones who never stopped working out of the home or who had a mix of WFH and office. It’s those who have been at home since March 2020 who seem content to stay there forever, because of fear out of all proportion to facts.

Who knew that so many are happy with such small lives, through choice?

What about young people starting office jobs? Wfh is unlikely to suit then for many reasons - just another way they're going to suffer.

What about young people starting office jobs? Wfh is unlikely to suit then for many reasons

This is (yet another) reason why employers won’t be keen on wfh long term. Attractive office environments will be key to attracting new starters, as they always were.

@Ninefeettall

Frankly it’s hard to feel any sympathy for the city centre businesses and transport businesses. Maybe if it hadn’t taken people ages to get to work on a disgustingly packed train that cost them a big whack of their salary, and maybe if their lunch hadn’t been criminally overpriced then it wouldn’t be so easy - and tempting - to walk away from.

So... don’t feel sorry for the businesses but feel sorry for the people they employ!

It’s like people on here cannot grasp that millions of people losing their jobs and income at the same time won’t have an effect on the rest of the economy?! Yes... even... gasp... white collar workers with cushy wfh jobs!

As far as I’m concerned, the service industry falling apart will just mean even more unequal distribution of wealth.
White collar workers with big salaries now working from home will not be spending the cash they save with local and small independent businesses. They’ll be saving and buying large ticket items - bigger houses, new cars, holidays abroad (when they’re allowed)

That’s if the services sector crashing doesn’t cause them to lose their jobs too...

@TheKeatingFive

I suspect a significant amount of money not being spent in pret or the like is being redirected to amazon. Not exactly progress.

Probably true, it is true in my case. Sorry.

Not that I spent a whole lot in Pret anyway and although DH was in the office every day he took sandwiches. He does treat himself to a Costa coffee once or twice a week though.

However, instead of buying coffee out, I have ordered a lot of coffee from independent suppliers, some local, some not to local, so I have redirected some cash to other businesses.

But to answer the OP's question, work from home if you can should stay in place until it's safe to ease restrictions. That may or may not be 21 June.

Also if some businesses want their staff in 3 days a week, the government needs to push the rail companies to offer flexible/part-time season tickets because at the moment 3 days costs the same as 5 and any sensible employee will say 2 days in office and 3 days at home!

Frankly it’s hard to feel any sympathy for the city centre businesses and transport businesses. Maybe if it hadn’t taken people ages to get to work on a disgustingly packed train that cost them a big whack of their salary, and maybe if their lunch hadn’t been criminally overpriced then it wouldn’t be so easy - and tempting - to walk away from.

Frankly it’s hard to feel any sympathy for London/SE based professionals who gladly accepted the increased career opportunities and higher salaries that came with those downsides (commute) and now claim it was ruining their lives. For the vast, vast majority of people there was always a choice. It just might have been a choice to receive a lower salary or a less prestigious role in a lower cost of living area. I always knew I’d hate a 90 minute commute or paying thousands a year for a season ticket so I took the trainee post in a northern city, not the trainee post in London.

@StealthPolarBear

What about young people starting office jobs? Wfh is unlikely to suit then for many reasons - just another way they're going to suffer.

It isn't an either/or. You can have a mix - some people will want to be in an office full time, others at home full time and other permuations inbetween. Others will want to work in co-working hubs close to home so they can still see people but avoid a commute.

A lot of this depends how far you live from work. If you're commuting into London and have a 90 minute door to door commute you're going to have a very different view on things to someone who can drive/cycle/walk to their office in 10 minutes.

I never realised so many workplaces banned their employees from bringing in a sandwich and forced them to go to Pret!

Oh wait, they didn’t, you chose that. I did too, most of the time, but it was out of pure laziness, so to complain about it was a bit much...

Frankly it’s hard to feel any sympathy for London/SE based professionals who gladly accepted the increased career opportunities and higher salaries that came with those downsides (commute) and now claim it was ruining their lives

Years ago I worked more or less FT in London (4 days a week) and the trains were pretty reliable. They were often a bit late in the mornings (5-10 minutes) but nothing terrible and they were always on time in the evenings (within 5 ish minutes). My son was in after-school childcare at the time, two days a week) and I only remember being late collecting him twice in four years (and one of those occasions was due to snow, not the train).

3 years ago I worked FT in London and the train was late more than it was on time, it was more expensive and often cancelled altogether.

People may have made a deal to commute, but although it was long, it was reliable. Shortly before covid, that had changed massively and particularly on the SWR network where the guards were continually on strike (Southern had had the same issue a year or so before that).

It is also quite unfair to say that people only took the jobs because of money. The UK is very London-centric and a lot of jobs are only in and around London. If you had the option of a northern city you were lucky. Even if you are eg a lawyer you can't do all specialisms outside London - eg capital markets. Probably not many advertising lawyers outside London either. If covid creates more of a stream of jobs to other localities, that can only be a good thing.

@Thefourbells

As I don’t have a ‘home office’ walking away is impossible.

I don't have one either. Our flat is 2 bedrooms, no garden, 500 sq ft. DH and I both wfh. We still prefer it to being in the office and have a better work life balance.

I've had no work life balance. If I work at the dining table there is no getting away from work as it's always there. If I get up to go to the loo in the night I have to walk through the living room. DH feels he has to sit in the bedroom to stay of out of the way. Our living room is in the the middle of the flat so you have no option but to walk through. Maybe if the layout was different it would be better but there's not a lot I can do about that.

Work reminded us all about confidential phone calls. I just laughed. What am I supposed to do, ask DH to leave every time I have a call?

Roses comment about a two-tiered society is bang on, IMO.

I work at a University and back office staff who have nothing to do with the students have to return to the office a couple of days a week to ensure the campus looks vibrant for the students

I work at a University and back office staff who have nothing to do with the students have to return to the office a couple of days a week to ensure the campus looks vibrant for the students

Perhaps that’s not the only reason management want them back.

I cant work very much at all at home, I've been back at work since March. the trains are much emptier to travel on when lots of people are wfh. However I can't see that being sustainable for rail companies and they will be cutting (more) trains and probably put prices up too.
Even now that non essential shops are open a lot of the corner shops, street food stalls and places like pret and costa are either struggling or open for shorter hours

I’ve spent most of my career working very long anti-social hours teamed with a long commute. The “handcuffs” that kept me doing it was I was near the top of a smallish profession where I needed to work in London. It was this good job or an atrociously-paid dull job out of London. So I kept on with the bad hours and no breaks. I am sooooo glad to WFH. Long may it continue. I feel human again. I can live away from stress and pollution and still do an interesting job. I always hated feeling trapped in that office.

I think it should be delayed until all adults have been offered the vaccine. When it does resume I think it should start for a limited number of days per week.

Though I am concerned that office property owners and central London coffee shops may have the ear directly or indirectly of the government, never mind managers who do a passable impression of David Brent.

The social aspect of work and the discussion of ideas does not need five days each week in an office if you have been able to work from home.

I’ve got a job that will be permanent work from home. I’m really happy about it as I’ve not been able to work before due to disabilities and limitations those cause, the fact that so many more roles are now available to work from home means for the first time I can actually do some regular work, and that’s doing wonders for my mental health and feeling like I have a use in the world