Work from home if you can should stay in place, surely?

[Ninefeettall]

Just thinking about June 21st and Boris said as recently as yesterday or the day before that 'Work from home if you can' will be scrapped from 21 June. Surely if the Indian variant is a problem (which we don't know for sure yet) then this is a really, really, really easy win? 'If you can' doesn't have to include people who need to be in the office for mental health reasons or who can't work properly from home, but there are vast numbers of young, unvaccinated or partially vaccinated office workers who have now been working from home for a year, doing their jobs perfectly well if not better who could just keep doing that and not add to the commuters or office workers spreading the variant about.

Why would people want to go back to travelling by train based on the service received pre covid?

Well if they don’t there will be no train service anymore anyway. You don’t have to have any sympathy whatsoever for TOCs. But perhaps a little for those who rely on public transport to get to the jobs which enable you to keep working from home?

And I can’t muster up any sympathy for the railways.

It’s not about sympathy for the railways, more what happens to people who can’t wfh and rely on public transport. The economies of scale have to work.

I don’t think you’re being asked to be sorry for the railway companies, just understand that if their operating costs aren’t being propped up by huge commuter fares then this essential service which so many people rely on will have to either be substantially reduced or funded with billions more in taxpayer subsidy.

Probably a price worth paying for the other advantages of a WFH revolution but not cost free.

I love travelling by train, find it far preferable to driving. Pre covid I took my DC all over the country by train. Never owned a car.

@JeanClaudeVanDammit

I also think that there's probably a lot of people who are being somewhat less productive than they say. How much that matters and how much it has been noticed will probably become clearer in time.

I’ve seen a lot of comments to the effect of “I’m more productive at home because I’m working longer hours”, which is frankly the opposite of productivity. If you’re spending more hours doing the same job you’ve become less productive.

Regarding the productivity issue I am working longer hours at home than I’ve ever done in the office but it’s not that I’m less productive, it’s because my workload has increased so much. If I was in the office I wouldn’t do as much extra as I would leave my desk and drive home. Because everything is set up at home I carry on.

@Livelovebehappy

And I can’t muster up any sympathy for the railways. The train companies have treated the public like crap for years with poor service, late or none existent trains and massive price increases. Why would people want to go back to travelling by train based on the service received pre covid?

People who can't WFH and rely on public transport?

If I was in the office I wouldn’t do as much extra as I would leave my desk and drive home. Because everything is set up at home I carry on.

This has been an issue at my work too. Our workloads have increased, and WFH has brought with it a sense that people are always at work to some degree anyway. There was always some amount of people catching up on email on their phones at home or on their morning commutes and so on, but now emails outside normal working hours are the rule rather than the exception.

So for me, and for many of my colleagues, WFH has wrecked our work-life balances. I appreciate this has been the other way round for some people though including some posters on here. At some point we probably do need to figure out some way of integrating more WFH flexibility into normal non-pandemic work culture, but it’s going to be very messy while it all gets worked out.

@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere

I don’t think you’re being asked to be sorry for the railway companies, just understand that if their operating costs aren’t being propped up by huge commuter fares then this essential service which so many people rely on will have to either be substantially reduced or funded with billions more in taxpayer subsidy.

Probably a price worth paying for the other advantages of a WFH revolution but not cost free.

Not a price worth paying for those of us who can't WFH and don't have cars. Other people WFH has no advantages for me whatsoever.

I guess if you are a cafe owner in central London, dependent on office worker trade, that’s the last thing they need?

Whereas the cafe owner in our small town will struggle when people flock back to town centres.

Our workloads have increased

Which is a management issue, not a WFH one.

I’m quite able to walk away from my home office at the end of a working day.

We haven’t really had much chance to see how well local high streets benefit from mass WFH though. Hard to draw conclusions from the past year+ of lockdowns and restrictions and people desperate to get back out again when they’re lifted. Maybe people will say “instead of spending £4 on lunch from Pret I’ll go and spend £4 in my local family-owned cafe”, or maybe they’ll just make their sandwich at home and save most of that £4 to spend on mostly-online clothes shopping.

@MintyMabel

I guess if you are a cafe owner in central London, dependent on office worker trade, that’s the last thing they need?

Whereas the cafe owner in our small town will struggle when people flock back to town centres.

Surely it'll just go back to its usual customers - I'd guess mostly pensioners and SAHMs? And there is no way that the average office worker has come anywhere close to replicating their usual spend on food and drink near their workplace in businesses near their home, so it really isn't a like for like thing.

Which is a management issue, not a WFH one.

Increased workload is a covid issue really, I can’t blame my management for that one to be fair.

What that plus WFH has definitely led to though is this increased expectation of working outside normal hours. That’s the case for a lot of people, not just at my employer. It’s great if you have not experienced that particular downside of WFH, but a lot of people have.

@MintyMabel

Our workloads have increased

Which is a management issue, not a WFH one.

I’m quite able to walk away from my home office at the end of a working day.

Good for you. As I don’t have a ‘home office’ walking away is impossible.

And there is no way that the average office worker has come anywhere close to replicating their usual spend on food and drink near their workplace in businesses near their home, so it really isn't a like for like thing

Yes, an important point. It’s a net loss for the economy.

Regarding the productivity issue I am working longer hours at home than I’ve ever done in the office but it’s not that I’m less productive, it’s because my workload has increased so much

Yes I’ve been the same, I’m as productive as I was before but am doing more work in more hours. If I didn’t have more work to do but was stretching my previous workload into more hours, my productivity would have decreased.

@Moomin12345

Enough with the hysteria. Should the government also bail out Debenhams forever so that no one loses their job ever? Sure, I'm callous, selfish, DERANGED because I don't want to needlessly commute for over 40h every month to keep the status quo and satisfy Saints like you.

Double standards much?? People saying that those that would lose their jobs through lower footfall on the hun street will just ‘have to adapt’ but you won’t do the same?? If you hate commuting - then adapt! Go find a job with a shorter commute or full time WFH - don’t expect rules for the ENTIRE country to be put in place just because it suits you!!

As I don’t have a ‘home office’ walking away is impossible.

I don't have one either. Our flat is 2 bedrooms, no garden, 500 sq ft. DH and I both wfh. We still prefer it to being in the office and have a better work life balance.

I do think that in the short term, wfh should continue. Once cases are back to where they are now, everyone who wants to be is vaccinated, and we don’t have a new variant of concern, the directive should be lifted for employers/employees to decide.

There were barely any coffee shops 30 years ago, now it seems all anyone cares about is making sure costa make a good profit...

Let's not forget that the coffee industry is very destructive in the places coffee is grown.

For every pound not spent in a Costa coffee shop, there may be an pound spent in a new independent shop or delivery service springing up where people actually live, transforming small towns and reinvigorating villages.

Most people who live and work in or near cities tend to shop at retail parks where parking is cheaper, they will continue to shop there even if WFH.

Great that the major polluting industries such as airlines are getting the wind taken out of their sails.

@Wherediditgo I've literally never written anything even remotely resembling that. I'm not expecting any sweeping national laws to mandate obligatory wfh for office workers forever. I'm just asking for more flexibility and giving people CHOICES. Telling people they have to cram into central London at dawn every day just because is not good enough. Also, you'd be pleased to hear my company is open to WFH a 2-3 times a week in normal times, so I don't need to find another job just yet .

now it seems all anyone cares about is making sure costa make a good profit

Fgs, you know this is ridiculous extrapolation.

Firstly, it’s not just Costa, but the many, many businesses that support office working, many of them SMEs.

Secondly, the demise of this part of the economy is just one of the many knock ons that a wfh ‘revolution‘ would prompt. As you can see from this thread, they are multiple and all have huge implications.

Great that the major polluting industries such as airlines are getting the wind taken out of their sails.

I hope there won’t be complaints from people like you when the impact of the tax revenues missed eventually hits public services. A lot of people seem very blind to whats coming down the line here.

For every pound not spent in a Costa coffee shop, there may be an pound spent in a new independent shop or delivery service springing up where people actually live, transforming small towns and reinvigorating villages.

There might be. Or there might be less money spent in towns and villages, because even though the workers are there the demand for shop-bought coffees and lunches isn’t. Or the demand might be there and the people who profit from it are the Costas and Prets of this world rather than independent local shops. (Why wouldn’t they just move to where the customers are?)

I don’t think we can tell at al what the impact of a mass move to WFH for office-based jobs would be, if everything else was allowed to function as normal.

Anecdotally, the money that comfortably off office workers are saving on season tickets and Pret A Manger lunches is being spent partly at local coffee shops but largely on home refurbishment. We’re doing a fair amount of it ourselves at the moment and the waiting lists for all local workers are huge. Solid decently paid work for the local economy, but obviously will require a bit of rebalancing of the workforce if it’s to continue long term.

For every pound not spent in a Costa coffee shop, there may be an pound spent in a new independent shop or delivery service springing up where people actually live, transforming small towns and reinvigorating villages.

I think this is unlikely. I used to go to Costa frequently but have been once in over a year. In that time I haven’t spent anything on a new independent shop or delivery service where I live. Bizarrely there doesn’t seem to be much demand when you are as rural as I am.