People have become mean-spirited during this

[Gyutre]

From the NHS clapping enforcers to the local FB groups curtain twitching, to the truly appalling posts on this website, I really feel this has brought out a nastiness and lack of empathy in people.
It has seemed at times that to even express missinh pubs, friends, holidays etc is to open yourself up to accusations of frivolousness and selfishness. I have turned inside myself and become seriously unwell with depression. But it is all people singing songs and baking bread and lighting candles and meaningless epithets about how "this too shall pass".

It’s fundamentally classism I think - middle class people who have secure jobs that haven’t been affected, nice houses with gardens etc have locked themselves away with their “famalam” and baked banana bread, and seem incapable of understanding that there is a large chunk of society without those privileges, hence a complete lack of empathy for anyone who struggles!

I’m privileged enough to be in the position of a secure job, owning my own home, living in a nice area but also to have experienced the devastation of living alone during this. More empathy all round would have gone a long way.

I can agree with your title but be honest with yourself here, your accompanying post is every bit as mean spirited and othering as the behaviour you describe. So what if other people want to sing and bake cakes to get them through this? You’re doing exactly the same thing as you described in your first sentence.

Agree with Cornettoninja.

I agree with the pp. Everyone has coped in their own way. If baking banana bread got you through a rough patch, then that’s great. I’m afraid very few of these types of threads are going to end well or even give you what you want, which is??

I think the adage that we are not in the same boat, just the same storm is very apt.

Some people couldn't possibly imagine why someone on a zero hour contract/minimum wage would ignore rules about isolating when alerted they could have been in close proximity to a case. That can only come from being in a position of privilege that missing 2 weeks of work wont mean no food in your belly.

Lots of shouts about the "greater good". One poster iirc stated she would happily go bankrupt and lose everything if it saved just one persons life. Utter nonsense of course. There are millions of people who have been dying of much worse things than covid for decades but I doubt she would go bankrupt and make her family homeless for them

I have hated everything to do with this pandemic, my job is 100% secure as is DH's. But due to my job I have been a direct witness to the increases in child abuse, domestic abuse etc. The mere idea that EVERYONE is safer at home is ridiculous, for some kids the safest place for them has, sadly, always been at school and for that to be removed for months on end will always be a travesty.

It has turned people into a bunch of judgemental, curtain twitching busy bodies. Posters declaring they couldnt be around someone who wont wear a mask (or their young kids wear one). Strangers yelling at people for not wearing a mask, or for coming too close. Reporting children seeing their grandparents on their birthdays to the Police. Ive decided some people are just nasty and vindictive and the pandemic has given them a voice that previously they had reigned in as it was so socially unacceptable.

I don't agree with Cornettoninja, roguetomato nor Toilenstripes. It has seemed there is an emotional fascism at work where it is like this is the socially acceptable way to react and thing to do, and if you are not part of the banana bread cult there is something wrong with you. I know my views are in a minority but I do think those living alone, with pre existing mental health conditions, those who don't have local networks and so on have been treated abysmally by those in the plurality groups. MN itself at the height of the first lockdown was truly dreadful for the posts on it

I don't recognise anything you say, OP. I think your imagination has run away with you.

MN has been exactly what it always is, a variety of ideas and attitudes.

I totally agree with you, OP.

This has brought out the very worst in some people.

Weirdly though (or maybe not so weirdly) the curtain twitchers have really enjoyed lockdown and restrictions and would be delighted for them to continue forever. Twats.

It's nothing new. A lot of people lack the ability to imagine what life is like outside their own experience.

@applesandoranges221

It’s fundamentally classism I think - middle class people who have secure jobs that haven’t been affected, nice houses with gardens etc have locked themselves away with their “famalam” and baked banana bread, and seem incapable of understanding that there is a large chunk of society without those privileges, hence a complete lack of empathy for anyone who struggles!

I’m privileged enough to be in the position of a secure job, owning my own home, living in a nice area but also to have experienced the devastation of living alone during this. More empathy all round would have gone a long way.

Bingo.

I've stuck to the 'rules' the whole way through, because I'm incredibly privileged to have a nice house and garden, to have both kept our jobs and not lost any money, to have the mental strength to be able to cope with the isolation while caring for a new baby, to have a supportive spouse who does as much as me, to have savings to cover us if we had to isolate, etc.

It's been difficult but I haven't faced anything like the challenges some have. I've been incredibly skint before for years on end and faced decisions like whether to go to work sick and be paid or take time off and potentially lose my flat, whether to buy food for the next couple days or pay for a prescription to treat an infection, whether to go to bed hungry or spend the last £3 in my account on a bag of chips and a drink but then have no guarantee my car would make it to work the next day.

There's so much talk of 'doing the right thing' in my social group (full of middle class parents who haven't had the same upbringing or background as I and many others have had), how no matter what the financial consequences you isolate if you've had contact because it's 'the right thing to do'. Lots of judgment and castigation of people breaking the rules when they haven't the foggiest what it's like to deal with the challenges that mean sometimes you have to prioritise your own survival and feeding your family above potential risks to others.

It's been awful and has really made me question the humanity of quite a few people I considered to be friends. The lack of insight is horrible. Lots of 'we're all in the same boat', curtain twitching about how so and so has had people round, calculating how so and so left their house but it seems like it was a day before they were supposed to be allowed to, lots of judgment about people using 'the mental health card' to be selfish.

We're not in the same boat by any means, not at all. Some of us have a huge, plush cruise liner to ourselves. Meanwhile others are crammed in a leaky dinghy.

It's been very disappointing and upsetting to see the dregs of human nature on such bright display since the pandemic began. How quickly and gleefully people dob their neighbours in, call the police on one another and so forth.

If you are on the bottom of the heap, people have always been like this, life has always been like this, with people who've never experienced it denying it was so.
It's just that it's more widespread now and affecting more people than it used to.
For example some people who were quite comfortable and well off before all this were quite likely to think the likes of me, on minimum wage, topped up with benefits, spent all my money on fags, booze, tattoos and wide-screen TVs.
Due to covid they're now decrying how unfair that wage is, because it doesn't cover the cost of living, now they've experienced it, it's allowed to be a thing.

@applesandoranges221

It’s fundamentally classism I think - middle class people who have secure jobs that haven’t been affected, nice houses with gardens etc have locked themselves away with their “famalam” and baked banana bread, and seem incapable of understanding that there is a large chunk of society without those privileges, hence a complete lack of empathy for anyone who struggles!

I’m privileged enough to be in the position of a secure job, owning my own home, living in a nice area but also to have experienced the devastation of living alone during this. More empathy all round would have gone a long way.

There's certainly derision in criticism of people queuing for Primark/ The Range/ Weatherspoons. Never a middle class brand.

Aren't people being good staying at home, not going to the supermarket or non-essential shops... while the supplies get delivered by people on minimum wage.
Not that that's inherently wrong, but it's the failiure to recognise that the Covid risk is being taken by others, and turning it into a moral action.

The focus on "rule breakers" causing spread has ignored communities having higher risk living and working conditions that are near impossible to mitigate. People in poverty and minority communities have been affected more because of socio-economic structures (e.g. higher housing density) rather than any moral deficit.

Banana bread cults I missed that particular boat. How the tories who have ruled the roost and through years of cuts and austerity go back with a stonking majority beggars belief. Oh, I forgot the all-important things of flags, statues, taking the knee, and immigrants and a magic money tree which the liked of Corbyn could only dream. As Edward Snowden says of the coming generation "you will own nothing and be unhappy. "

Brilliant post FrozenCucumberPresse. Agree with every word

If you are on the bottom of the heap, people have always been like this, life has always been like this, with people who've never experienced it denying it was so. It's just that it's more widespread now and affecting more people than it used to

100% agree with this.

@Gyutre fair enough, you don’t see it but I assure you I do and would use this as an example of why our own personal interpretation of others intentions/meanings aren’t always reliable. I think there is a degree of comfort in finding other people who share your world view but I think it’s massively damaging (to you mostly) to buy into the tribalism of who’s right or wrong and using putting others down as a strategy of reassuring yourself. Does it actually make you feel better? I’m guessing not, it’s a pretty self destructive behaviour.

Obviously I have no idea what the nuances of your workplace are but on the face of it you’re angry at a group of people who’ve found a commonality that you aren’t part of. They’ve done nothing wrong and there’s nothing wrong with not sharing in that. They certainly don’t deserve to be painted as nasty or not empathetic any more than you do.

What it's shown me is how some people really thrive on other people's misery.

Tbh I continued to see a couple of people throughout (boyfriend and a relative) which I think was the only reason I didn't have a breakdown. I saw a load of posts on here about how 'stupid and selfish' people like me are for doing that but irl, I know very few who stuck to the rules entirely.

Cornetto I think we are extremely far apart in our perceptions of this. I do not have an issue with people finding commonality in baking etc. I do have an issue with people who post sanctimonious posts, for example a local health worker who prefaced every single comment she made on the local FB group with "as a frontline health worker" and wrote posts complaining about "people who should be cocooning out walking". There was a socially distanced party held locally during lockdown which was legal as people went out into their own gardens. The Covid group went mad with complaining and finger pointing. An admin of the group said how great the community spirit was locally and people were all helping each other. I thought that's funny because not one person locally has made any contact with me at all. That has been my experience.

@nordica

It's nothing new. A lot of people lack the ability to imagine what life is like outside their own experience.

Yes, I think this underlies a lot of it.

Cornetto I think we are extremely far apart in our perceptions of this

I think you’re right.

I do not have an issue with people finding commonality in baking etc

But that’s exactly what you’ve posted here

I do have an issue with people who post sanctimonious posts, for example a local health worker who prefaced every single comment she made on the local FB group with "as a frontline health worker" and wrote posts complaining about "people who should be cocooning out walking"

Why? Facebook isn’t court, it’s just an opinion that they’re entitled to express and is pretty easy to just not pay attention to.

Fwiw, I don’t think HCP’s are necessarily being sanctimonious. Like everyone else they are likely to have a different experience of this past year. I’m getting increasingly uncomfortable with their reality being dismissed so easily. Full disclaimer - I’m not a HCP but have a lot in my circle, most don’t give an opinion unless asked but there’s an increasing hostility towards them and it’s disturbing to be frank.

There was a socially distanced party held locally during lockdown which was legal as people went out into their own gardens. The Covid group went mad with complaining and finger pointing. An admin of the group said how great the community spirit was locally and people were all helping each other. I thought that's funny because not one person locally has made any contact with me at all. That has been my experience

Have you made contact with people locally? Have you asked for help? What is it you think your local community should have been offering? I’m also confused at the point this anecdote is illustrating - you seem quite angry at everyone?

I think its got nasty in all directions.

From phrases like curtain twitchers to just stay at home to criticising those on furlough or those having to work at home who feel lonely, or those feeling at risk going in, to those struggling with dying businesses, loneliness and mental health and to those mourning the loss of their daily lives, those living in fear (whether or covid or of the impact of restrictions) and those who fear the worst may yet be to come. I am sure will have missed some

There is little empathy for others whatever their circumstances

Its dire

@Cornettoninja

Cornetto I think we are extremely far apart in our perceptions of this

I think you’re right.

I do not have an issue with people finding commonality in baking etc

But that’s exactly what you’ve posted here

I do have an issue with people who post sanctimonious posts, for example a local health worker who prefaced every single comment she made on the local FB group with "as a frontline health worker" and wrote posts complaining about "people who should be cocooning out walking"

Why? Facebook isn’t court, it’s just an opinion that they’re entitled to express and is pretty easy to just not pay attention to.

Fwiw, I don’t think HCP’s are necessarily being sanctimonious. Like everyone else they are likely to have a different experience of this past year. I’m getting increasingly uncomfortable with their reality being dismissed so easily. Full disclaimer - I’m not a HCP but have a lot in my circle, most don’t give an opinion unless asked but there’s an increasing hostility towards them and it’s disturbing to be frank.

There was a socially distanced party held locally during lockdown which was legal as people went out into their own gardens. The Covid group went mad with complaining and finger pointing. An admin of the group said how great the community spirit was locally and people were all helping each other. I thought that's funny because not one person locally has made any contact with me at all. That has been my experience

Have you made contact with people locally? Have you asked for help? What is it you think your local community should have been offering? I’m also confused at the point this anecdote is illustrating - you seem quite angry at everyone?

Firstly, I have an issue with a relentless focus on one type of person on one type of situation. It is not that they should not be in the picture, it is that they should not be the whole picture and as they have been, it is extremely isolating for those that are not.

In normal times you can easily ignore opinions on FB. However in a pandemic in a locality where at times people were restricted to not being allowed outside their village, especially for those who were recently arrived, the only prism into trying to get to know the locality and see what people were like was these local groups. I had high hopes of mutual help, online support and getting to know people I could subsequently meet in real life. Instead it has been pure poison and made me feel alone and excluded.

I have not seen evidence of hostility towards healthcare workers. I have seen deification of them, and on the part of a small minority of those being deified, a patronising and hypercritical attitude towards more or less everyone else.

As for making contact with local people, I have been so chronically depressed that I have at times been unable to even get out of bed. In January at the worst I was regularly staying in bed to sleep the day away. Depression is an illness that at times does not allow you to find a way to reach out.

As for being angry with everyone, I am not angry with everyone. I am not angry with the vast majority of humanity who I have never and will never encounter. I am not angry with friends or family who have been supportive over the phone and online. I am angry with those who have caused unnecessary hurt to others.

Have "people" become mean-spirited?

Do "people" post rainbow pictures and banana bread loaves with the intention "this will make all the other people either on their own or not winning at family life feel inadequate and jealous of my amazing supermum #soblessed life in my perfect kitchen"? I mean really these are the intentions behind ALL the self-smug social media posts?

We have seen people organise prescription drop-offs for isolating others, felt a connection to neighbours once a week with the Thursday clap, mums with crazy housebound toddlers doing rainbow-window walks to break up the long hours, had local independent shops trying to make sure they could still provide bread and fruit, had our local convenience store owner driving to the cash and carry back and forth to make sure there was pasta and toilet rolls available.

Jigsaw swaps, boxes of "help yourself" books, anything to help people get what they need or little extras to pass the time. People passing on kid's bikes free when you couldn't buy a bike for love nor money.

Sometimes you have to look for the goodness, go past all the nonsense, but we believe the majority of people are nice. And perhaps some actions wind some up but I bet the intention behind those actions, most of the time, are not meant to.

Life is too short to assume the worse. Floor people with kindness. Be part of the solution not sniping at the sidelines.

The deification drives me (an NHS worker) and DH (another NHS worker) up the wall tbh. It's so unnecessary. There are plenty of other people working themselves to the bone during the pandemic without anywhere near the kind of income, social gravitas, or respect that we get.

The whole 'NHS discount' thing was appalling too. Sure, give a discount to the people who have kept their jobs, instead of to the many people who've lost theirs or are struggling financially. We don't need 10% off at a supermarket or a free coffee FFS. Morrisons still do it so we get the 10% off and then spend that amount on a food bank parcel (they have them packaged up at the door when you go in which is handy!).

We're not heroes, we're just ordinary people doing the job we trained to do.

It's okay to feel angry btw. It'd be kinda weird if you weren't angry at at least something after the awful year we've all had. And I'm sorry you're going through depression, that's really, really tough. I hope tomorrow is a better day for you

But can you not see, you say others unnecessarily hurt others, but you are doing exactly the same by spreading anger and hostility on here?
Like I can't never experience your hardship, you can't never know what other people are going though either.