Could it be that the Indian variant, like the Brazilian and SA variant is nothing to seriously worried about?

[user19097527484949]

There was a lot of talk a few months ago of the Brazilian and South African variant.. but neither have completely messed things up for us yet. Could it be the same with the Indian one ? Fingers crossed !

Pfizer has just said that there vaccine does not need to be tweaked for any of the know variants of concern!

This means we probably won't need boosters unless something new comes along

The vaccines are all also supposed to be the same. As they all affect B cell memory or something like that 🤷‍♀️

Either way brilliant news tonight 🥳

You still need to get both those jabs of whatever vaccine in your arms as soon as they let you though.

Pfizer has just said that there vaccine does not need to be tweaked for any of the know variants of concern!

That's great....for people who've had Pfizer...

This means we probably won't need boosters unless something new comes along

We might for the people who've had AZ?

@Tealightsandd

Pfizer has just said that there vaccine does not need to be tweaked for any of the know variants of concern!

That's great....for people who've had Pfizer...

This means we probably won't need boosters unless something new comes along

We might for the people who've had AZ?

Looking like all the vaccines work for all the know variants. Therefore very unlikely any would need tweaking at the moment. Which would mean no boosters except maybe for the elderly that have weaker immune system. They lose antibodies quicker or something like that🤷‍♀️

Pfizer has not released evidence that it works against the India variant. However I think it is going on the fact that now AZ has evidence it works. If one vaccine will work that means the others will.

Pfizer and AZ have been going neck for neck in all the real world results. On the current evidence you are very well protected no matter which one you get

New PHE data shows:

•Two doses of Pfizer’s vaccine reduces risk of COVID-19 related death by 97% (one dose reduces risk by 80%)

•One dose of Astrazeneca’s vaccine ALSO reduces risk of COVID-19 related death by 80% (data on two doses is not available yet)

Sorry I am not quite up to speed on Moderna but it should show similar results against variants and infection etc as the other two.

I really hope you're right.

My concern is mainly Long Covid. From what I've read, AZ effectiveness only relates to preventing hospitalision and death, whereas Pfizer reports say all infections? I might have missed something though?

Long Covid can develop after mild infections. If AZ doesn't protect against long Covid, people who've had AZ should be given a Pfizer booster. Particularly women in their 40s - who seem to be most at risk from long Covid.

The potential variants or mutations that concern me are the ones which thrive in warm climates and the young.

@Tealightsandd

I really hope you're right.

My concern is mainly Long Covid. From what I've read, AZ effectiveness only relates to preventing hospitalision and death, whereas Pfizer reports say all infections? I might have missed something though?

Long Covid can develop after mild infections. If AZ doesn't protect against long Covid, people who've had AZ should be given a Pfizer booster. Particularly women in their 40s - who seem to be most at risk from long Covid.

The data is showing that both vaccines are good a limiting infection and transmission if you do get infected. Even if you get covid still all the vaccines should make it so moderate that long covid or any other complications are less likely.

So far there has never in any country be a reported case of two vaccinated people infecting each over. Not from any vaccine. This is a very difficult thing to prove but so likely not quite true. However it strongly suggests to the scientific community that the transmission is way less than the predicted percentage we have been given. Which is why are figures have dropped way better than anyone expected.

A lot of unknowns still but all fantastic stuff really. However we still have to get enough people vaccinated to keep the variants at bay etc. This India one is not great timing and makes be a little nervous. I do believe though that if vaccination take up continues to be good we don't have a problem. A bit of a knife edge moment really.

@Tealightsandd

Pfizer has just said that there vaccine does not need to be tweaked for any of the know variants of concern!

That's great....for people who've had Pfizer...

This means we probably won't need boosters unless something new comes along

We might for the people who've had AZ?

If you are worried about how effective the vaccines are or how they handle the variants try this tweeter.

Mac n’ Chise
@sailorrooscout

Lots of brilliant easy to read explanations. Links to the latest data. She has been correct about everything so far because only uses the scientific evidence not models or opinions

From WHO this morning:

UPGRADE IN WARNING—@WHO has finally upgrading the highly contagious #B1617 variant spreading in India as a "variant of concern" at the global level. Prelim studies show it can spread more easily, & “some evidence it may able to evade vaccines”. #COVID19t.co/tKMTTTTQQH

@user19097527484949

There was a lot of talk a few months ago of the Brazilian and South African variant.. but neither have completely messed things up for us yet. Could it be the same with the Indian one ? Fingers crossed !

There was a LOT of concern over the SA variant - as a result a number of surge testing drives were done - in fact it's hard to imagine what more we could have done to keep this variant out of the country. Ditto with the Brazilian variant.

Neither have stopped being a variant of major concern, esp the SA one. If either took hold here, we'd have problems as it would likely destroy our (largely AZ based) herd immunity. But so far, it hasn't.

Contrast that with the Indian variant which seems to be less of a concern than the SA one, but it HASN'T been addressed with the same attention. Even when we belatedly put India on the red list, we allowed over a dozen more full flights to land without restrictions and based on data from elsewhere, each flight was likely to be carrying ~50 infected people!

Like you I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that it turns out that it isn't a major concern after all, but it seems inevitable now that it's here to stay.

@TruelyWonder

It completely depends on what your focus is. Mac n’ Chise is driving a positive message home about the benefits of vaccines. That's NOT the only issue in town.

It's likely that protection against SERIOUS illness for the vast majority of people, will be similar no matter which variant of covid they encounter, so as far as your risk of dying goes, they are nothing to worry about if you've been jabbed.

BUT, it takes a very small drop in vaccine efficacy for a vaccine to go from stopping most transmission from infected people, to having little effect on it. There are no studies addressing this yet with any of the new variants, but the fact that the AZ jab appears poor at protecting against SYMPMTOMATIC infection from the SA variant, would indicate it would have a far lower impact on transmission too.

THIS is why the government is worried about the new variants - currently our R value is around 1 because of the impact of vaccinations on transmission. If we lose that benefit then R will rise, case numbers will escalate rapidly, and once again the vulnerable will be vulnerable. The wave wouldn't be as bad as the first two, but it could still cause enormous issues.

@LilyPond2

How did it get in when we have quarantine people? I recall seeing a news item which showed the "red list" queue at passport control next to the non-red list queue. The system relied on the virus knowing it wasn't allowed to cross the tape separating the two queues...

As any teacher will tell you covid can’t cross tape.

There are also exemptions from quarantine even from red countries. The G7 delegation from India were exempt and even had meetings with government ministers. They are all self isolating because at least 2 of them brought covid in with them.

There’s some people who flew in from India to staff cruise ships who were given essential worker status and brought it in too.

@TruelyWonder stop spreading dangerous misinformation about the efficacy of the AZ vaccine against the SA variant. The paper you refer to was also a real life clinical trial and showed only 10% efficacy against the SA variant. Extending the gap between doses is highly unlikely to quintuple the efficacy to bring it to a point where the benefit from the vaccine makes up for the change in behaviour from people who've been vaccinated. People who've had AZ still need to be very careful if they're in an area where the SA variant is present. Your well meaning but scientifically illiterate advice could actually kill people.

...stop spreading dangerous misinformation...

Misinformation? Deepti, is it you?

Off-topic: "misinformation" is the most favourite term of Dr Deepti Gurdasani. She seems to be genuinely convinced that everyone who disagrees with her (including Public Health of England) is spreading "misinformation".

[quote QueenStromba]@TruelyWonder stop spreading dangerous misinformation about the efficacy of the AZ vaccine against the SA variant. The paper you refer to was also a real life clinical trial and showed only 10% efficacy against the SA variant. Extending the gap between doses is highly unlikely to quintuple the efficacy to bring it to a point where the benefit from the vaccine makes up for the change in behaviour from people who've been vaccinated. People who've had AZ still need to be very careful if they're in an area where the SA variant is present. Your well meaning but scientifically illiterate advice could actually kill people.[/quote]
That trial also showed it was still effective at preventing serious illness and death, and there is other research that supports this. So calling people “scientifically illiterate” and saying their advice could kill someone is somewhat premature and more than a little ironic.

@Aposterhasnoname

That trial also showed it was still effective at preventing serious illness and death, and there is other research that supports this. So calling people “scientifically illiterate” and saying their advice could kill someone is somewhat premature and more than a little ironic.

I thought the trial was not able to show whether it prevents severe disease and death. Do you have the research to show it does?

[quote bookworm1632]@TruelyWonder

It completely depends on what your focus is. Mac n’ Chise is driving a positive message home about the benefits of vaccines. That's NOT the only issue in town.

It's likely that protection against SERIOUS illness for the vast majority of people, will be similar no matter which variant of covid they encounter, so as far as your risk of dying goes, they are nothing to worry about if you've been jabbed.

BUT, it takes a very small drop in vaccine efficacy for a vaccine to go from stopping most transmission from infected people, to having little effect on it. There are no studies addressing this yet with any of the new variants, but the fact that the AZ jab appears poor at protecting against SYMPMTOMATIC infection from the SA variant, would indicate it would have a far lower impact on transmission too.

THIS is why the government is worried about the new variants - currently our R value is around 1 because of the impact of vaccinations on transmission. If we lose that benefit then R will rise, case numbers will escalate rapidly, and once again the vulnerable will be vulnerable. The wave wouldn't be as bad as the first two, but it could still cause enormous issues.[/quote]
Afraid it is you that is wrong honey. Try reading up a bit. Lots of new information out that means the south African trail. (Which used to short a gap to make AZ effective and was a lab based test) is not worth mach notice. Tests in dishes don't mean Jack all when you have really world data

Read the tweeter posts of the person I provided. She only uses proper evidence and provides links to real world data. At the moment you are trickery boo with all the vaccines against all the variants. Brilliant news isn't it❤

[quote BlueBlancmange]@Aposterhasnoname

That trial also showed it was still effective at preventing serious illness and death, and there is other research that supports this. So calling people “scientifically illiterate” and saying their advice could kill someone is somewhat premature and more than a little ironic.

I thought the trial was not able to show whether it prevents severe disease and death. Do you have the research to show it does?[/quote]
It couldn't the they were not yest that at all. Only infections with a 3/4 week gap. Like we know AZ takes longer to reach full effectiveness against infection.

A great number of people in this country have not had any vaccine yet

True enough, but by now most of them are the non-vulnerable or vaccine refusers

Unfortunately, despite excellent work being done by some community leaders, it's said that jab refusal's still very common among minorities - and in my east midlands city where door-to-door chasing up has already started, the accusations of "racist targeting" have started too

With today being Eid I worry about what that'll do to transmission, and I worry even more about what will happen if Covid comes to be seen in the main as a minority problem

"There is no data on its impact on diagnostics, therapeutics, or vaccine effectiveness yet."

Soumya Swaminathan,

Chief Scientist of the WHO

on B1617.

We don't know yet.

and anyone spinning "no evidence of that" as a positive, is probably a disingenuous propaganda Twitter account who deletes a lot of their previous tweets because they have been consistently wrong and in fact said much the same things about the B117 variant 7 months ago,

Why variants are unlikely to fully evade vaccine-induced immunity:
•Vaccines are polyclonal (Abs)
•CD8+ T-cells covering 52 epitopes across the spike protein
•CD4+ T-cells covering 23 epitopes across the spike protein
•T-cells also target epitopes across N and M proteins

Your well meaning but scientifically illiterate advice could actually kill people.

Oh the drama

Real-world data out of South Korea shows that just ONE dose of either Pfizer’s or AstraZeneca’s vaccine was 87% effective in preventing infections among people age 60 and older. Their analysis is based on more than 3.5M people.

Preliminary data shows the vaccines are indeed effective against B.1.617, the variant first identified in India. In addition, the vaccines utilized in Brazil (Coronavac and AstraZeneca) are working and prove to be effective against P.1!

Brazil and P.1. As 1st doses were administered to over 95% of 80+ year-olds reaching 49.1% in weeks 5-6 and over 90% after week 9 of the study. (77% CoronaVac, AZ 16%), COVID mortality rate began to decline rapidly DESPITE P.1. being dominate.

I could go on and on with copy all these findings but you get the idea. Go Google and find the research but all real world data. Which is rather marvellous and means that we have no reason to think the other vaccines won't act the same. Basically once you have built antibodies and you have immune system memory it really doesn't matter much which vaccine you get.