Choosing not to get vaccine

[InnerDiscomfort]

Not looking to start a fight, but interested if you have made the decision not to get the vaccine and have no condition that you know of that would stop you, why not?

Family members abroad have decided not to get the vaccine (Pfizer I think). Vague concerns about it not being safe and/ or tested enough. They both work outside the home and have families. Fairly fit and healthy so unlikely to be seriously affected by COVID, under 50 years of age.

It's not something I agree with but up to them I guess. I'm also unlikely to get ill but had my first vaccine mainly to help stop the spread (and I'd like to go abroad!)

So if you haven't had it, I'm interested in your reasoning if you would care to share.

@MissTrip82

I work in ICU so obviously don’t know anyone who’s said no. Perspective helps. As does a grasp of how pharmaceutical products are regulated and tested.

I’ve only encountered refusers online. Not one has been able to articulate the usual processes for pharmaceutical product testing and release and the steps they specifically believe have been skipped. None seem to be aware of the scientific research over the past two decades that underlies current vaccines. The reasoning is vague and suggests a lack of familiarity with basic principles of science that concerns me in people who (I assume) have finished primary school.

I am seeing some overlap with people refusing the flu vaccine. Again, this is not something I encounter in my circle of people with a combination of scientific knowledge and the aforementioned perspective. People who are perfectly healthy in their 20s who don’t think they need the flu vaccine should google ‘ECMO’. That’s what each of the perfectly healthy people in their twenties I’ve seen die of influenza were on right up until their death.

Surely if people in their 20s needed the flu vaccine then they'd be offered it? The reality is a healthy 20yo would be turned down for it if they asked for it. I've been turned down for it myself before now due to my asthma not being severe enough.

Your body your choice

I personally am not going to get it when I am called as I am pregnant. I will get it after I give birth though. I am 28 so won't be called for a while yet and will likely be heavily pregnant by then . I don't feel there is enough research into the risks while being pregnant. I will also be WFH from around 22 weeks so the risk is less for me .

I’m 36 and will not have the vaccine, unless really pushed by the government for some sort of travel passport in order to go abroad. But as having a holiday this summer is looking very unlikely, and there’s been no talk of vaccine passports in order to travel, I most certainly won’t be having it.
I caught covid last year. It was 6 weeks of various symptoms, and although not pleasant, I have had worse- tonsillitis/ tonsil removal are just 2 examples.
I KNOW how my body reacts to covid. Whereas I DONT know how it will react to a new vaccine. I have 2 young children depending on me. When the vaccine was first offered in December we were told it was entirely safe (or as safe as any vaccine) However now, months on blood clots have come to light. Long term side effects. People not feeling great weeks or even months after a vaccine. It affecting women’s periods...All things never spoken about in December. What will come to light a year on then this December? The start of many new cancers? Who knows . We don’t know that’s the problem.
I have no problem with masks, and SD when i’m out. Good hand washing, good hygiene, I take my vitamins and try to eat healthy most of the time, drink lots of water etc. I don’t work in a busy environment.

How many 30 odd year olds do you know/ or seen in the news in hospital on ventilators? Or dying? I haven’t seen or heard of one. Surely that would be a great way for the government to increase our uptake of the vaccine if they had proof of 20/30year olds in hospital very sick? But that doesn’t exist.
I believe young people have more risk with the vaccine than with covid, same goes for kids.

I am not a crazy anti vaxxer. I don’t believe the 5G theories. I believe the vaccine is beneficial for those 50 years old and above, those who have a high BMI, those who believe in it 100% and want it.

We have a family member who has cancer (in remission) who has decided not to have the vaccine. The government told us from the beginning to get vaccinated if you have a health condition, it puts you at greater risk. Yes, it may. But so may the vaccine. There is no way they have had time to test the vaccine on every disease, type of cancer etc on people yet. It may just accelerate that disease or illness even more. We don’t know, and we have always been told that if we don’t know, if we are doubting something, to err on the side of caution and wait.

@Cakeofdoom

Neither a Covid denier nor anti vaxxer but I react badly and randomly to many drugs, have been hospitalised several times as a result. I Have been told at least three times by HCP's that various treatment/meds/surgery are safe and now im in excruciating pain and other complications with an implanted surgical mesh I was told was absolutely safe.

I am not prepared to guinea pig myself again and for a trial drug for a virus that i have a 98 percent chance of surviving, even with chronic asthma.

I have never been hospitalised but my health is permanently ruined by prescription drugs. I had the jab and am still suffering the results. Big set back. It causes massive inflammation. I don’t blame you at all. Not yet sure if I will have the second.

@Serenschintte

Yes, it’s still in the testing phase and frankly I don’t want to be a guinea pig. I’m under 50. Reasonably healthy. Have never had the flu vaccine and don’t see the need to have this. I have absolutely nothing against those who choose to have it. My perspective is my body my choice.

100% agree.

What i don't agree with is those who choose to have the vaccine that call those who choose not to "anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists etc". A bit uncalled for really.

I believe in full autonomy when it comes to things like this. Each individual is free to make their own choice.

However, I also believe a choice isn’t free unless it’s informed. And that goes for people in both camps (those that don’t want it, and those that shout at people who don’t want it!)

I’ve swung back and fourth. I’m mid 30s so I’m more likely to accept it after the news that I should be offered an alternative to AZ... but truth be told I’m in no rush.

I've declined it, partly because of autoimmunity and allergies, partly because I'm a needle-phobe and haven't had an injection since I was 10. We simply don't know the longer term effects on people who have autoimmunity. Also I've had Covid, asymptomatically, and have the antibodies to prove it. I live very much house bound due to disabilities so don't travel or see anyone much at all (DP is vaccinated). Fortunately DP understands and there's no pressure from him to get the jab.

@CrunchyCarrot

I've declined it, partly because of autoimmunity and allergies, partly because I'm a needle-phobe and haven't had an injection since I was 10. We simply don't know the longer term effects on people who have autoimmunity. Also I've had Covid, asymptomatically, and have the antibodies to prove it. I live very much house bound due to disabilities so don't travel or see anyone much at all (DP is vaccinated). Fortunately DP understands and there's no pressure from him to get the jab.

If you don’t mind me saying, your post is exactly the sort of thing I mean - you are making an informed choice about your own body... doesn’t seem to be based on hysteria or pseudoscience. I am in total support of anyone who makes a decision based on facts and personal circumstances (Not that my opinion matters, but y’know!)

[quote RoseRedRoseBlue]@PetraRabbit yes, thats exactly what we were told and surprise surprise, it was another carrot dangling lie.[/quote]
Just two more weeks!

@HairyToity
‘ Another is in his mid 80s, and decided he never goes anywhere anyway. This person is actually quite fit for mid 80s, still works on the family farm, and refuses to even take paracetamol if he's unwell. He won't take flu vaccine either, and I've never actually heard of him going to the doctors.’

Interesting you say that - there is an informal rule in medicine that if a farmer ever self-presents to ED ‘a bit sore’ you can guarantee that they are extremely unwell indeed as they’re a remarkably stoical bunch

@Chailatteplease

“There's a weird desperation to it.”

Has it really not occurred to you that might be because of the pandemic? The fact that people have been effectively grounded for over a year now? Not to mention the loss of lives/livelihoods and the huge debt created by closing down the country?

My god 🤦‍♀️

The pandemic did not cause your businesses to shut down; it was the government’s hamfisted reaction to the pandemic.

Basically using a hammer to solve what could have been done with a scalpel

*If you don’t mind me saying, your post is exactly the sort of thing I mean - you are making an informed choice about your own body... doesn’t seem to be based on hysteria or pseudoscience.
I am in total support of anyone who makes a decision based on facts and personal circumstances *

Thank you for saying so! Means a lot. I have agonised over the decision for months. I do have a biochemistry degree so am not a scientific novice, and tend to read just scientific papers if I can access them, and have watched a lot of videos re antibodies and immunity. Have had a couple of run-ins with the tin foil hat brigade elsewhere so am definitely not one of them!

The positive side of all this has been I'm now following an online virology lecture series which is fascinating. Did you know that there are more virus particles in 1 litre of sea water than there are people on the planet?

As a family we are at higher risk from cancer. I’m extremely cautious about my health as a result (and no I don’t take the contraceptive pill and rarely take Paracetomol!)

I don’t think we can safely analyse the long term safety of these new style vaccines with much confidence yet - both mRNA or adenovirus. We don’t really know if they might increase the risk of cancer or autoimmunity. We actually might not find that out either as the trials will stop. I read things like “mRNA is highly unlikely” to change DNA and think “have we just completed a huge human experiment”?

I do generally vaccinate - my kids are vaccinated in the main. I’m probably not mainstream though and aware of it. After several medical fuck ups to our family including to my first born, I have become highly questioning of experts and studies and tend to research most things myself - from eggs and butter to NSAIDS to 10,000 steps a day. I think most people would be surprised at the variety in studies; how many studies can be picked apart, the funding of studies and the non publication of studies that aren’t helpful.

I’m generally astonished at how trusting people are of the system and cannot fathom all these young people piling in for these vaccines. Yes there is the element of the “greater good” but I have never seen such concern for our fellow man before!

@InnerDiscomfort

This is the true position.

All the vaccines have been properly tested. Anyone who thinks different is to be very honest showing the world they are ignorant about drugs.

Any one who is not contraindicated for the vaccines is being selfish expecting others to do the hard work and lifting and then they benefit as the virus can’t propagate in the the population.

It’s a pandemic. It’s a health war. Adults need to do their bit as we all live in communities.

So people not taking come up will all sort of emotional bating BS and false hoods.

They should be shamed for being weak selfish and ignorant.

It’s that’s simple and that clear .

I’m generally astonished at how trusting people are of the system and cannot fathom all these young people piling in for these vaccines. Yes there is the element of the “greater good” but I have never seen such concern for our fellow man before!

God forbid they are perceived as an anti-vaxxer!

Honestly, they should just weigh up their own risks and understand it’s a personal decision to do it or not.

I did it for personal reasons and whilst I’m not happy about it, I will loudly support a more individualised approach that takes into account the actual risks of COVID versus a societal approach that really glosses over the individual risks.

It’s quite scary how the UK did not understand the clotting issue before sending to market, how is this supposed to engender trust? If the EU hadn’t pushed the issue would any reports of AZ problems simply been dismissed as antivaxxer nonsense?

I didn't "want" the vaccine.

But I also don't want my children to miss more school. I don't want to not be able to see my parents because restrictions make a visit impossible. I don't want to WFH forever without seeing other adults on a daily basis.

If everyone decided to be the ones who wait and see then we'd be stuck in this cycle of lockdowns for much, much longer. Those of us who have had it are buying freedom for those who decide not to.

Anyone relying on everyone else to get it so they don't have to should at least have the decency to admit it's selfish.

@Blondiney

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you actually knew more refusers. Many people wisely decide to keep it to themselves, rather than being unfairly judged.

Agree with this.

A colleague of mine won't have hers. I overheard her speaking about it on the phone when I walked into the works kitchen. She quickly changed the subject when she realised I was there but from what I did hear, her and her partner won't be having it. She's in an at risk group as well having COPD.

Another nurse here who isn't getting it. I'm 30, in good health, and fit. I also don't like putting things into my body unnecessarily (won't take hormonal contraception for example, rarely take paracetamol unless absolutely necessary, try to eat a plant based diet as much as possible).
I am at a minute risk of covid affecting me adversely - at my age I've more chance of dying in a car crash or drowning.
I'm all for vaccinating those who are elderly and / or frail, but I don't believe we need to vaccinate everyone to protect public health (similar to flu vaccine).
In all honesty, I'm dumbfounded so many healthy young people are so quick to get it, those who would never have considered the flu vaccine.
Dh is also a HCP, had his first dose and had heart palpitations and dizziness all night to the point he contacted 111 with concerns. He isn't having his 2nd dose.
Being able to go on holiday / to the pub etc should never be a reason to put drugs into your body. It should be a risk vs benefit decision, and more importantly we should all be advocating for pro choice.

Any one who is not contraindicated for the vaccines is being selfish expecting others to do the hard work and lifting and then they benefit as the virus can’t propagate in the the population.

They should be shamed for being weak selfish and ignorant

🥱 💤

Shaming people for not making the same decisions as you is so 2020

This thread makes me so sad, angry, despairing. It's party directed at those refusing the vaccine but mostly at those who aren't informing people enough and sending mixed and dangerous messages. No one should be having the vaccine to protect themselves or to open up safe travel etc. if they're young and healthy. You should be having it to save the whole fucking world! This is not about YOU. It's about humanity. I get there are fears and risks, but when you've seen a relatively healthy man in his 50s drop dead from a covid related clot, you realise that this disease really doesn't spare anyone. The risks from the vaccine are minute compared to that from covid. A couple of days of feeling a bit rough are nothing compared to months of long covid, which is what younger people are experiencing, particularly those who didn't get that unwell with the actual illness. Of course I think it's important that people have the choice but I also think people should make the choice to have the vaccine. Thank goodness the over 50s are less selfish - 95% uptake. But, sorry, selfish isn't the word - it's not your fault if you're being fed misinformation or poorly delivered information. For instance, the clot risk has been blown out of all proportion. I can guarantee you most of those refusing the vaccine because of that will have had other vaccines and treatments with worse risks attached without even knowing about it - just nodding while the risks are read out and signing the consent form. It's only because this is in all the papers that it makes it appear to be a higher risk. I'm just so sad to read such misunderstandings in this thread and would love to go through it with a fine toothed comb and work out the change in uptake that might happen if all the misunderstandings of the risks were debunked.

I know several people, including 2 doctors and a scientist who has worked with mRNA technologies in the past, who aren't going to have it.

As this ONS study suggests, they are neither "anti-vaxx" nor remotely stupid. Quite the opposite.

[quote Justa47]@InnerDiscomfort

This is the true position.

All the vaccines have been properly tested. Anyone who thinks different is to be very honest showing the world they are ignorant about drugs.

Any one who is not contraindicated for the vaccines is being selfish expecting others to do the hard work and lifting and then they benefit as the virus can’t propagate in the the population.

It’s a pandemic. It’s a health war. Adults need to do their bit as we all live in communities.

So people not taking come up will all sort of emotional bating BS and false hoods.

They should be shamed for being weak selfish and ignorant.

It’s that’s simple and that clear .[/quote]
Nonsense.

No one is weak, selfish or ignorant for making an informed, individualised choice about optional medical treatment.

I’m 35. I’m a healthy weight. I don’t have any of the underlying health conditions considered a risk factor for severe COVID. I don’t know anyone my age who has suffered badly after contracting COVID. I have the antibodies but never had any symptoms, so I assume at some point I’ve had coronavirus and my body has already dealt with it perfectly well on its own.

I don’t want a vaccine that is causing very severe side effects in many people. Most side effects aren’t reported. The true scale of the severity of these side effects isn’t being shared with the public. That’s not being an anti vaxxer, it’s just a fact. The yellow card system is very under-utilised. A close relative of mine has had debilitating vertigo for six weeks after getting the vaccine. The doctor told her this is something they’re hearing about a lot but as dizziness is listed as a side effect on the leaflet it’s being dismissed as a ‘normal’ response. My relative can’t live a normal life at the moment. She’s found a support group of hundreds of people online who are in the same position after the vaccine. They were all healthy before. The vaccine triggered such a powerful inflammatory response in their bodies that many have been debilitated by it. But where are the stories on this in the press? Nowhere to be seen, of course, because of the relentless PR push to get us all vaccinated.

So it’s not a simple choice actually. The vaccine does cause quite significant side effects in many people that are worse than the symptoms of the disease it is trying to protect us from. Many people are absolutely fine. But I know more people who have had a bad time after the vaccine than I do people who’ve had a bad time after coronavirus. So I’m not interested in having the vaccine. I don’t see that it’s my civic duty to have the vaccine. I’m not going to be guilted into having medical interference with my body.

Again, your body, your choice. No one has the right to shame or coerce anyone else into medical treatment they don’t want. The rhetoric that you’re ignorant for not getting this vaccine is ignorant in itself. There is no such thing as a risk free medical procedure and for most of us we only take drugs we actually need - when the illness we’re suffering makes it worth the risk of the side effects. For most of the population, COVID is a mild disease. So for most of us, the vaccine is not offering us anything our bodies actually need. What it is offering is an easy way for society to reopen. For me that’s not enough justification to inject myself with something my body may have a very extreme response to. I know my body has already dealt very well with coronavirus on its own. So why would I take the risk of the vaccine?

@FireworksAndSparklers

This thread makes me so sad, angry, despairing. It's party directed at those refusing the vaccine but mostly at those who aren't informing people enough and sending mixed and dangerous messages. No one should be having the vaccine to protect themselves or to open up safe travel etc. if they're young and healthy. You should be having it to save the whole fucking world! This is not about YOU. It's about humanity. I get there are fears and risks, but when you've seen a relatively healthy man in his 50s drop dead from a covid related clot, you realise that this disease really doesn't spare anyone. The risks from the vaccine are minute compared to that from covid. A couple of days of feeling a bit rough are nothing compared to months of long covid, which is what younger people are experiencing, particularly those who didn't get that unwell with the actual illness. Of course I think it's important that people have the choice but I also think people should make the choice to have the vaccine. Thank goodness the over 50s are less selfish - 95% uptake. But, sorry, selfish isn't the word - it's not your fault if you're being fed misinformation or poorly delivered information. For instance, the clot risk has been blown out of all proportion. I can guarantee you most of those refusing the vaccine because of that will have had other vaccines and treatments with worse risks attached without even knowing about it - just nodding while the risks are read out and signing the consent form. It's only because this is in all the papers that it makes it appear to be a higher risk. I'm just so sad to read such misunderstandings in this thread and would love to go through it with a fine toothed comb and work out the change in uptake that might happen if all the misunderstandings of the risks were debunked.

I feel exactly the same, but about the way covid had been shown over the last year to be honest with you. 'it doesn't spare anyone' is such a load of nonsense. It actually does - it spares the young and healthy, with very rare exceptions. The average age of death from covid is 82, as opposed to the average age of death from any cause - 81.