That holiday destination list....

[ShamedBySiri]

As I haven't got spare cash for an overpriced holiday abroad I have been able to laugh at the list. Though I would love a trip to Portugal or Iceland, both places I have had great trips to in the past. But the rest of the list??? I've seriously wondered if the government are just trolling us now!

South Georgia anyone? I'm not sure if there is even any permanent habitation there? Obviously if you are the next David Attenborough and want to study the penguins I'm delighted that you should be able to pursue your career. And I love penguins. But it's not exactly a practical holiday destination for most of us.
It would probably take the best part of a week to get there for starters (and another week to return obv).

Where do you fancy going to on the list?
(Australia and New Zealand are out as they aren't letting us in).

Forget the air fares, it’s the cost of the mandatory pcr tests that you have to have before you fly plus the ones before you return plus the pcr tests at 2 and 8 days after return. You can’t get free ones on the NHS. Private companies are making a fortune.

In addition to the extra Covid medical logistics and costs for permitted international leisure travel - there may be short notice changes and so further issues if for instance there was a crowded airport queue or aircraft cabin super spreading event or the destination has a new wave etc resulting in major distress and disruption let alone elevated medical risks and costs!

They’ll add more in the next review in 3 weeks then by June/July I would expect Greece/Spain/ France etc to be in there. Whether you want to risk going or not is a different matter but we are only in early May.

Agree it’s a bullshit list though. They may as well have not bothered.

You could tell it was going to be a shit list when they sent Grant Shapps out to make the announcement. A good range of holiday destinations that were willing to accept us would have been announced by Boris, telling us he'd save summer holidays.
Ooooh -clever spot!

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

In addition to the extra Covid medical logistics and costs for permitted international leisure travel - there may be short notice changes and so further issues if for instance there was a crowded airport queue or aircraft cabin super spreading event or the destination has a new wave etc resulting in major distress and disruption let alone elevated medical risks and costs!

Not to mention extra nights accommodation if you end up with a positive test while there and are stuck.

I looked into going home to see my parents briefly a few months ago to see what might be involved. It’s a complete pain in the arse once you’ve taken into account all the possibilities. And it really will need comprehensive travel insurance that will cover medical expenses, extra accommodation charges, flight changes. And planning that you might need up to an extra 14 days off work. I can foresee a lot of go fund me’s being set up.

@Hesperatum

Forget the air fares, it’s the cost of the mandatory pcr tests that you have to have before you fly plus the ones before you return plus the pcr tests at 2 and 8 days after return. You can’t get free ones on the NHS. Private companies are making a fortune.

Good, nhs money should be spent on better things than private tests that allow people to holiday in a pandemic.

The test cost will be insignificant compared to having to isolate after or staying abroad if the test is positive etc.

This list means nothing for a holiday in July/ August.

Yep, they'll put Greece, Spain, Italy and France on for the summer at least. There won't be any rhyme or reason to it, just something about Tory donors in travel industry blah blah. Same like everything else.

The EU were talking last week about reducing our need to quarantine there (with vaccine or tests). Some third countries, or ex-EU countries being treated the same as Shengen zone.

I've still got a channel tunnel ticket for the first week of the school holidays. Fingers crossed.

Good, nhs money should be spent on better things than private tests that allow people to holiday in a pandemic. The test cost will be insignificant compared to having to isolate after or staying abroad if the test is positive etc.

I can tell you that all 20 passengers on my plane were not flying for holiday. Sorry, but most people flying mid-pandemic are NOT taking a holiday. Those who are go on private jets. Commercial jets are carrying passengers whose travel is considered urgent/life or death. That said, the private testing keeps it 'essential'. I think people could lie and say, "I'm going to the States for a life/death matter," and not mean it. My testing outbound, in the States, and back here in the UK have cost me £500 on top of everything else. But for me, it really was urgent travel. It certainly would give me pause (going abroad) if I'd said, "Yeah. Life or death travel... but actually, I just want some sunshine." It was agonising paying that much money for PCR testing, but it keeps the piss takers at bay, I guess.
It's really not fun, travelling right now. I don't know it things will change massively in the summertime. But 10 hours on a flight with a mask on wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but it wasn't great either. The form filling is full-on. There's lots of form filling. It's very different than pre-covid travel. I underestimated the hassle of it all.

The test cost will be insignificant compared to having to isolate after or staying abroad if the test is positive etc.

Even with a negative covid test, you will still have to isolate in some cases. I'm in isolation now... 10 days at home, testing on days 2 and 8. And they call you to check how you're doing. You can't slip through any net. It's very well-handled. But it's very serious and full-on. I'm impressed with how organised it all is. And even with a vaccine, you'll have to test.

@Kyph

I thought travel for work was allowed as essential? If not then I have misunderstood and it really should be.

It is allowed. But it's not worth it, if after every 2-day trip abroad I need to isolate for 10 days (or pay 50% extra to 'only' isolate for 5-6). Also not worth it when I can access free/very cheap testing in whatever country I'm going to for work - not subsidised by their NHS counterpart, but private companies who have been given the resources so the country doesn't just halt to a stop - but then I need 3 tests in the UK, at extortionate prices. The results of which can take up to 48h to come back, so in reality a 5 day isolation becomes more like 7. When everywhere else I get the results before the end of the day - a system which enables people to actually keep working, in a safely manner. So I lose a lot of time, and give up half my fee on testing.

I work a combination of home and abroad jobs. Sometimes I literally just need to pop to France/UK/Norway/[insert country of choice] for 2-3 days. Then I get back home and have 12h until I need to be back in work. If I isolate every time I come back from a trip, then that's a lot of days off my main job, which means I lose the majority of my income for that particular month, and run the danger of being sacked soon.

Many professions were exempt from all this endless isolating shambles before Christmas, then they were taken off the list and have never been put back on it. So yes, travel for work is allowed but the system means it's not actually worth doing it. It's ridiculous how little thought has been given to certain industries that depend on overseas travel. Most of these industries are still completely closed in the UK, so I guess the government didn't imagine they've been up and running almost everywhere else, throughout the pandemic, and therefore still offer work to their employees.

yes, travel for work is allowed but the system means it's not actually worth doing it.
It's clearly not essential then. Essential travel would have to happen regardless of being 'worth it' or not.

As for 'home quarantine' and people not bothering to do it. So what? They've travelled (often on public transport) from the airport to home. That means it's not a quarantine.

@EileenGC

Exactly! DH usually pops on a plane to somewhere (it’s the Middle East he needs to go mainly) for 2/3 days then comes home and flies somewhere else which is completely impossible with having to constantly isolate. Plus you’ve also got the problem of there are very few flights available because you can’t fly there from the U.K. for leisure purposes.

He lived in Dubai for 4 years (which I know people will have strong opinions on) but all his friends have been vaccinated for over 3 months and they are all much younger than him.

He has just lost 3 massive clients which he has had for nearly 15 years because they are now only doing business with people locally as they can get their easily. Of course I’d love to go on holiday but I also want him to keep his job which he has fought to hold onto through Covid on the assumption that when things open up he could travel.

@Kyph

I thought travel for work was allowed as essential? If not then I have misunderstood and it really should be.

There's a bit of semantics involved with all this.

International travel for work purposes ( some jobs simply can't be done without international travel) and also for essential purposes such as family emergencies has been allowed for some time,
but testing and quarantine requirements have been ever changing as described by others upthread.

There's also a smaller group of essential workers who can travel internationally and are subject to reduced or no quarantine (though that's very rare if red list countries are involved) on entering the UK- that category is generally restricted to some those working directly involved in transport/logistics/keeping elements of UK infrastructure functioning.

@backatschool

I live in Singapore. I can't even leave the country as you need special government permission to get back in as a resident plus 21 days quarantine, 100% no tourists allowed. The list is flawed to say the least...

Well the list isn't flawed, it is a list showing what people have to do if they arrive back into England from these ted/amber/green countries - it was never said to be a list of where people could travel to without restriction.

Ultimately every country will have its own rules, just because a country appears on our green list and doesn't require quarantine when you get back to England it doesn't mean you won't have to quarantine on your way out to the destination (or that they will even let you in)

@Geamhradh

Think the fact that the British shouted loudly they didn't want to be part of the EU might have scuppered that one.

The EU seriously doesn't care - it's a bureaucracy - it won't react or indulge in political posturing (although some nations within the EU may). The UK would be welcomed to join their passport scheme, provided it agreed with the rules, because that would save EU citizens money and time when wishing to travel to the UK. However, as others have said, anything suggested by the EU is rejected automatically by this Brexit government. In the end we'll all have to pay the price.

[quote ihearttc]@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Unfortunately DH cannot inspect planes by video call so he does need to travel. In normal times he would be travelling at least 2-3 weeks a month. His clients have been very patient but he is now losing all his business to other countries which are allowing travel which in turn means we will lose our income and possibly our house.

I just don’t see the point in vaccines if it still doesn’t actually mean we can travel anywhere. He’d happily take a test, in fact the country he needs to visit has insisted on that since last summer so he has done it all before.

Travelling is a lot more than Joe Bloggs wanting to pop off to Benidorm to have a few pints and sunbathe on the beach and I really wish people would realise that. Families haven’t seen each other in years and businesses are going down the pan despite numbers being incredibly low and a huge amount of the population being vaccinated.

Like I said, I’ve had the double whammy of having Covid and a Vaccine so I can’t get much more protected yet still I can’t travel.[/quote]
Absolutely this a million times.

@ihearttc

Another nodding in violent agreement.

I bailed out of aviation earlier than planned due to the Virus and know more than a few people who are in a situation similar to yourself....

A continued policy of "you can't be too careful" will result in some nasty and unpleasant real world consequences for many people in the UK, a controlled return of international travel is pretty much essential to the UK plc and many people living there.

@loginfail

It would have been much easier if he’d have stayed in the Middle East but after 4 years he felt it was enough. He came home at the end of Feb 2020, literally just before Covid.
The clients he deals with have fleets of multi million dollar aircraft, quite frankly they don’t give a shiny shit who deals with them as long as they get the best price and they can actually see them in person which clearly at the moment DH can’t do.
People also need to consider that if this goes on much longer there will be no airline or travel industry to come back to...fast forward 2 years and they’ll all be moaning as flight prices are so high due to so few airlines operating.

People also need to consider that if this goes on much longer there will be no airline or travel industry to come back to...fast forward 2 years and they’ll all be moaning as flight prices are so high due to so few airlines operating.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist generally and certainly don't subscribe to the many ridiculous theories going around about coronavirus. And yet I do find myself wondering if governments around the world haven't come to the conclusion that this is one way of getting carbon emissions down...

And they can't be blamed for it in the way they would be if (in the absence of coronavirus) they had decided to put massive restrictions and punitive taxes on the travel industry.

Meanwhile DD has been contemplating going up to Edinburgh to visit a friend struggling through her first year there. She thinks she'll have to do home tests etc to fly - I'm not quite sure about this, the online advice is unclear. In the past we have been able to get train tickets for about £50 but now...looking at around £200 each way! It's ridiculous.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

Me too....so excited !!!!!

@6Helen7

It was obvious when they didn't announce the list before the elections that there weren't going to be many popular destinations on the list.

I think other places like Greece etc will be added later.

Agree.

Also notice they didn't put all the popular tourist destinations on the red list until then either.

I looked at Malta and Madeira.

Couldn't find anywhere that wasn't stoned beach, in middle of what looked like a building site or near a town/ resort.

I think for AI where you just want to sit by a pool they'll be fine but not my idea of holiday destinations!

I didn't look at Portugal direct as they won't actually let non EU residents in currently?

@ShamedBySiri

People also need to consider that if this goes on much longer there will be no airline or travel industry to come back to...fast forward 2 years and they’ll all be moaning as flight prices are so high due to so few airlines operating.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist generally and certainly don't subscribe to the many ridiculous theories going around about coronavirus. And yet I do find myself wondering if governments around the world haven't come to the conclusion that this is one way of getting carbon emissions down...

If there's a demand for it (post pandemic), of course we'll have airlines. Meeting that demand is too lucrative to ignore. If one airline is no longer in existence, another one will take it's place. Environment issues? I very much doubt the UK government - with so many MPs having shares or other financial interests and donor happy friends in the travel industry want to limit international travel. Of course they don't. For goodness sake, if a pandemic doesn't reduce it then the environment most definitely won't either. The UK government has prioritised international travel above all else throughout this pandemic. Above lives, health, and all other industries.

It's clearly not essential then. Essential travel would have to happen regardless of being 'worth it' or not.

@Tealightsandd

Have you heard of self-employed people? Travel for my job is essential, as in - I can’t actually do my job if I don’t travel there. But no one will pay me for the days I need to take off to self isolate on return. So it’s a balancing act - say yes to the work abroad, and then lose money for the days I’ll be isolating on return. Or say no and lose the money I’d be earning if I went. Abroad contracts are paid much, much better than in the UK, they’re vital to people paying their bills and food. I’m losing a large portion of my salary either way, which is something many families can’t afford.

Working is essential. It stops being doable, or worth it, the minute you’re financially at a loss by doing it. It’s really not that hard to understand.

The UK government has prioritised international travel above all else throughout this pandemic. Above lives, health, and all other industries.

You keep saying this. Is that why the borders have been closed for over 4 months now? Is that why millions of people haven’t been able to visit their families and friends abroad, some for over a year?