So are schools safe like the PM always says? Or did those 100 cases catch covid at school?

[CarrieAntoinette]

Did those 100 covid cases at Wilsthorpe School in Derbyshire catch it at school?

(In which case schools aren't "safe" are they? They're clearly not even "covid secure" are they?)

Or is there a hidden reservoir of presumably asymptomatic covid in that local area?

Or both?

Might there be hidden covid in other areas?

And does this have implications for the roadmap and the back to your workplace push?

@CarrieAntoinette when did I say we did vaccinate like israel , I said look at israel for some positive data
You are avoiding questions as i have been on school threads and we have implemented most of what is wanted , there isn't much else other than home learning , which isn't great long term and not accessible for all
You can choose to home school your children though , but you can't keep saying its been done to death as so has your post

When there were cases at the dcs' school in the winter, there was no further transmission amongst the class or year group bubbles

What this school shows is that when you do lots of testing in a school with an outbreak, you uncover lots more cases.

Before Christmas they weren’t testing, so you can’t actually state with any confidence that there were no further cases.

@noblegiraffe kids catch it at school and also will catch in other places when open
We take a risk all the time , people catch it in the work place, in their home
All we can do is try and mitigate
We all know schools cannot be guaranteed to be or stay covid free, but yes I do want schools open as My yr 11 needs to be at school , I know its a risk to him and us but whilst cases are low , i would rather he is in school than sat home like the OP seems to want

@noblegiraffe and you can't say with confidence there wasn't either?
But lets not pretend only schools spread it and no other occasions will , as we had high numbers for some time when schools were shut

Our (very) weak point until the majority population are fully vaccinated is the border restrictions...Or rather, our lack of them. We don't have anything meaningful in place. Mostly wide open with no real quarantine. People are already avoiding our pathetic joke of a quarantine by flying indirect. They're heading onto public transport straight from the airport. I'm surprised people are surprised when we have outbreaks.

@Tealightsandd but loads are shouting for holidays to open so People don't seem bothered by that.
Personally I think the world should all close borders for 6months / 1 year to get under control everywhere and only essential flights etc, but I guess thats not economical and like it or not we do have to weigh up all I guess

[quote worriedatthemoment]@noblegiraffe and you can't say with confidence there wasn't either?
But lets not pretend only schools spread it and no other occasions will , as we had high numbers for some time when schools were shut [/quote]
There's not many indoor prolonged contact places open at the moment though is there? Work, school, care homes, hospitals, places of worship - any more?

I just wish people would admit that teachers, kids and parents are taking one for the team and stop pretending that you can keep schools covid free.

What a brilliant comment. Absolutely right. I'm tired of people telling me schools are safe and to just get on with it. (Whilst they work from home).

[quote worriedatthemoment]@year5teacher yes exactly and her comment after proves the point.
Why start a post stating more needs to be done but then not actually say what ?
Most if us know there is a risk in all we do still and there is only so much that can be done.
Hopefully they may find what caused this and we may learn from it and hopefully all those who have caught it are ok [/quote]
Again, perhaps stick to what I've actually said rather than say

Why start a post stating more needs to be done but then not actually say what ?

when the first post is still up, and doesn't say that.

as we had high numbers for some time when schools were shut

Not in secondary kids. Infection rates in secondary kids dropped and continued to drop once schools shut, which was not matched in other age groups.

Whatever you think the consequence of this should be, 100 cases (not 100 isolating, actual positives) must give us pause for thought as restrictions loosen.
48 cases at one secondary school (Elgin Academy) in the north of Scotland.
Hard to imagine that the cases in school don't lead to further cases amongst their families. Not enough vaccinations have happened for us to be safe from this.

@CarrieAntoinette no maybe your opening post didn't but you did go on to say that and have been asked several times and avoided the question

@noblegiraffe maybe not but this virus then just spreads another way and via other ages
It was always likely we would get mini outbreaks but we are in a better position that before xmas to deal with them

@CarrieAntoinette at that time pubs and restaurants were also open and many other places
Even now shops are all open thats lots of people indoors and there is a lack of sd happening in most

It’s not surprising given how many unvaccinated people are together for so many hours.
How many are mixing indoors outside of school despite the rules? Then add in clubs, shopping and many not testing children or thinking they can tell it’s just a cold so send them in etc and it’s not hard to see how the virus has chance to spread so much.

@Mistressinthetulips

Whatever you think the consequence of this should be, 100 cases (not 100 isolating, actual positives) must give us pause for thought as restrictions loosen. 48 cases at one secondary school (Elgin Academy) in the north of Scotland. Hard to imagine that the cases in school don't lead to further cases amongst their families. Not enough vaccinations have happened for us to be safe from this.

I think it depends on the consequences of this. Outbreak of clusters in more high risk areas (and I dont think anyone realistically doesnt include schools its just the longer term risks of shutting them do outweigh closures) such as schools/factories/hospitals/care homes (although vaccines make the last less likely) was ALWAYS going to happen and continue to happen as long as Covid is with us (we get measles outbreaks/scarlet fever/norovirus etc).

What needs to be looked at and monitored isnt the outbreak itself it is the dealing with and consequences of. It looks like the current decision to shut down the school until the 11th May is a good and sensible one to cut this off at the pass. If the cluster then dies down then it is job down. The testing and short term lockdown works to stop spread. If it doesnt then there is a bigger problem

Noblegiraffe - schools are a primary source yes but to deny that secondary sources flow the schools is just as problematic. And the secondary sources coming out have the potential to be even worse because that is the escape route. And the October/November half term was the start of the lockdown here and Tiers so very little parties going on. DS was early Oct and we just got his party in.

Yes, it really is.
Sawley too.

Noblegiraffe - schools are a primary source yes but to deny that secondary sources flow the schools is just as problematic

Good thing no one has then. But lots of people deny that schools are a problem.

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

This is a lovely thread of patronising and almost offensive comments, isn't it. NO, YOU'RE POOR WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. Or I DON'T CARE WHO GETS ILL AS LONG AS SCHOOLS STAY OPEN.

Proper bitchy. Anyway..

I just wish people would admit that teachers, kids and parents are taking one for the team and stop pretending that you can keep schools covid free.

That's the best comment on the thread.

I'll assume that's aimed at me?

Bitchy!? Ffs!

I lived there. I worked at the foodbank. I volunteered in the schools.

And even if I hadn't done any of those ^ things its clear that Long Eaton is a deprived area. Just walk around it!

Also there's the - ya know - socio economic data.

But I guess its all about the feelz?

No one is calling anyone poor. Why is it "bitchy" to point out that the school in the op is in one of the most deprived areas of Derbyshire?

That seems to have really annoyed some of you!

Thats the world we live in now I guess...forget facts, and experts collecting data. Fake news! 🙄🙄🙄

Also:

The deprived areas where these outbreaks are occurring have lots of things in common...

Less well educated residents, older population, issues with NEET, issues with homelessness, issues with zero hours low income jobs, issues with substance abuse problems...

Its not that hard to see why these areas have the highest number of infections and deaths.

Not just in England either. The valleus in Wales have been hard hit too. Very similar issues.

But, yeah. Let's just pretend these issues don't exist. Smacks of NIMBYism to me...

Quartz I don't think letting it get to a point where what, 1 in 9 people in the school? have Covid could be described as "cutting it off at the pass". That decision should have been made much faster.

@Jenthefredo

Also:

The deprived areas where these outbreaks are occurring have lots of things in common...

Less well educated residents, older population, issues with NEET, issues with homelessness, issues with zero hours low income jobs, issues with substance abuse problems...

Its not that hard to see why these areas have the highest number of infections and deaths.

Not just in England either. The valleus in Wales have been hard hit too. Very similar issues.

But, yeah. Let's just pretend these issues don't exist. Smacks of NIMBYism to me...

Quite. The most deprived areas of the country have always had the poorest health outcomes and the lowest life expectancy rates. Covid hasn't changed that. Oddly, these areas also coincide with the worst educational outcomes and the lowest digital access. Go figure, who'd have thunk....

It's all very well the entitled middle classes perpetuating mass hysteria about how unsafe everything out there is. What is their alternative? That children never return to school? Because vaccine or not, Covid is going nowhere, and by their reckoning, neither is anyone else going anywhere.

The answer is very easy actually. Anyone who does not wish to work in a school can find another job. Anyone who does not want their children in school, deregister and home school. Those things are within the power of anyone who wants them. And leave the rest of the population alone to make their own decisions.

I am fed up to the back teeth of an entitled minority who scream close the schools, don't travel, don't (insert anything they disapprove of happening), and seek to impose their views on the entire of the rest of the population. If you want to become a hermit, locked in your house, then have at it. Leave the rest of us the fuck alone to make up our own minds. Not everyone has the luxury of the choices that you want imposed on everyone else, and not everyone would choose them if they did.

👏👏👏👏👏

Amen moondust!

Who is screaming close schools?

That line of attack is so 2020.