So are we all getting a booster in Autumn then?

[OnTheBrink1]

Just seen the news that Hancock has ordered 60m Pfizer doses. So is that all the adult population given booster in the Autumn?
Will that be alongside the AZ that most people have had do you think?

I thought they were already developing the tweaked AZ for the Autumn? (Post fusion spike protein rather than pre fusion) and changing the sequence slightly for the variants? Similar to the flu vaccine every year.

The Minister on the tele this morning said they will check when people need boosters.

So be ready for September but it could be early next year before they are given.

I guess they want to leave it as later as possible.

If they can get enough vaccine in stock beforehand then I'm pretty sure they could roll it out very quickly.

Novavax was also mentioned for 2nd doses.

Not sure about Oxford but I think they are still working on something.

There is Valneva too.

Doesn't the adenovirus pass out of your system pretty quickly?

I read they wanted to give boosters to jver 50 then 12 year olds and over to help with the spread if the third wave 🤷🏼‍♀️

Not 2nd doses sorry but boosters

@Nodal

I thought they were already developing the tweaked AZ for the Autumn? (Post fusion spike protein rather than pre fusion) and changing the sequence slightly for the variants? Similar to the flu vaccine every year.

Turns out not if you've already had AZ. It's been very quiet but I believe it to be true that you can only have two in your lifetime due to the vector they use.

Can't even think about this, only just had first shot hopefully this will be enough to "keep us out of hospital" until past Christmas (apologies for the C-word)!

@Whichjab where have you seen that?

@Nodal

I thought they were already developing the tweaked AZ for the Autumn? (Post fusion spike protein rather than pre fusion) and changing the sequence slightly for the variants? Similar to the flu vaccine every year.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6072458/

Section 3.4 onwards.

I'm in the AstraZeneca trial, we're currently trialling the booster for those who received two shots of AZ

Yay! And the sequence has been modified slightly since the fire version right? And they've taken steps to reduce the immunogenicity of the vector right? Gosh they're not half clever these vaccine scientists!

So sounds like the vaccine doesn't last very long and will be wearing off already by Autumn so you'll need another one??
Also why order 60m? That's more than the number of people it'll be needed for??

@SophieGiroux

So sounds like the vaccine doesn't last very long and will be wearing off already by Autumn so you'll need another one?? Also why order 60m? That's more than the number of people it'll be needed for??

1. Nobody knows how long antibodies nor T-cell immunity last for until enough time has passed to test, nor whether the type of vaccine impacts on that. That is because it is not known, not because immunity fades. With vaccines for other illnesses some will last a lifetime and others last a year... it's reasonable to have a cautious approach.
2. It's called spreading the risk across multiple vaccine manufacturers to ensure something works. Please see first vaccine dose ordering strategies for what went well, we didn't get doses available by buying the minimum and buying late.

Better to order a massive batch that might not all get used - so you can send the remainder off somewhere that needs them and look good for doing it - rather than order too few and then have to join the back of the queue again behind all the other places needing them.

(I mean better from the viewpoint of a politician)

I think it will be with the flu jab, so healthcare workers and the over 65s

They haven't allowed covid vaccines to be given within a month of a flu jab so far. It would need trials to confirm. Long term a combined jab (or sniff vaccine) would obviously be ideal, but I don't think they'll be ready to do it this year.

What I don't get is the government say they have purchased 60 million Pfizer booster vaccines, but then say they will be for priority groups 1-4. Surely 60 million booster vaccines is enough for the whole country?

I'd quite like one if it covers the Indian variant (double mutation etc) and I am in group 6.

Good news for you then @goldwallpaperisgross - astrazeneca (covishield) already offers that protection, and covaxin does too: www.thequint.com/amp/story/news/india/early-studies-show-covishield-covaxin-effective-against-covid-variant.
Seems likely that Pfizer, Moderna, Novovax etc will also.

@goldwallpaperisgross

What I don't get is the government say they have purchased 60 million Pfizer booster vaccines, but then say they will be for priority groups 1-4. Surely 60 million booster vaccines is enough for the whole country?

I'd quite like one if it covers the Indian variant (double mutation etc) and I am in group 6.

Is it a possibility they're getting ready to vaccinate under 16's also. Early trails on Pfizer in under 12's has shown promising results hasnt it?

Turns out not if you've already had AZ. It's been very quiet but I believe it to be true that you can only have two in your lifetime due to the vector they use.

Why?

I think it's insurance because we just don't know how things will go in the autumn. Sounds like a good strategy to me.

It’s a bit of a logistical nightmare surely as if everyone gets a booster (and appreciate it might just be certain groups) it will basically mean re-starting the whole programme again in autumn, although at least only one dose needed. I wouldn’t say no though, would be reassuring to have a tweaked jab hopefully covering the variants!

Also if a booster is required (on the basis immunity may wane fairly quickly? Or just due to variants?) does that not suggest one would be required each year, for as long as covid is in circulation (surely forever?) ...perhaps just the most vulnerable groups.

Anyway I’m pleased they’re looking into it and they seem to have a good team considering the options and best approach. Thank God for science frankly!

It was originally reported that groups 1-4 would get the Novovax vaccine in Sept/Oct, but it does look from recent reports that everyone will be offered a booster. - guess this could be Novovax, Pfizer or possibly one of the others on order, depending on which is most suitable for fighting any variants.

People can mount antibodies to adenovirus vaccines (to the adenovirus bit) so they aren't a long term solution. I find it odd though that they have chosen the one which is hardest to store, & expensive. A lot who will need the boosters will have had Pfizer anyway, so AZ would be a viable booster.