Servers at pub not wearing masks - is this ok?

[Catyness]

I've been to 2 pubs now since they've re-opened outside. I was surprised last night that the servers/waiters weren't wearing any type of face covering. They stood around 1m away to take the order then would be right at the table when delivering the drinks.

Is this allowed? Is this safe?

I did feel uncomfortable and won't be rushing back there I'm afraid.

@Thegentleman I don’t see the logic in this.

The mask, when worn whilst serving, helps prevent their own droplets from landing on the customer, regardless of whether the mask is “dirty or not.”

Without a mask they’d be touching their face etc and still handling glasses and what not.

Don't we all. But I'd rather not get passed on a nasty pathogen thanks! So they can mask up if they're serving me anything! Pesky pandemic, hey

Did you worry about "nasty pathogens" before Covid?

[quote Canyouexplainhowthatis]@Thegentleman I don’t see the logic in this.

The mask, when worn whilst serving, helps prevent their own droplets from landing on the customer, regardless of whether the mask is “dirty or not.”

Without a mask they’d be touching their face etc and still handling glasses and what not.[/quote]
You don't readjust your face/pull it down for a breather regularly. You do, with a mask. Whatever is on the mask (which will be a bit damp and squishy with exhalation and sweat, particularly on a hot day) then goes on your plate/food/cutlery.

You make the observation that without a mask they'd be touching their face anyway, then handling glasses and whatnot. So without a mask, you're still going to transfer whatever is on your face onto whatever you're touching. You've admitted, then, that wearing a mask outdoors doesn't offer the protection you previously claimed it does.

Outside? No. But then I have reached the point where stuff like that just doesn't bother me. I just want to see people and go out.

@TheVampiresWife Regardless of any of those things, a mask still protects against droplets when I’m being served.

Not all risk can be eliminated and I don’t care as much for what happens behind the scenes as much as I do what happens in close proximity to me.

Masks should be worn when taking orders etc to stop risk of the employees droplets landing on a customer directly.

Masks should be worn when taking orders etc to stop risk of the employees droplets landing on a customer directly.

So while the unmasked waiter is stood there jotting down your preference for the Pinot, "droplets" are raining down on you?

@IcedPurple Er, yes. That’s literally how most infection occurs. Close contact.

Do you think that being outside means that you somehow escape it? It reduces the risk somewhat but not so much if someone is directly above you and exhaling.

@TheVampiresWife Regardless of any of those things, a mask still protects against droplets when I’m being served.

@Canyouexplainhowthatis

So by your logic shouldn't all customers wear a mask whenever a server comes near them to stop the customers droplets raining on the employee whist they are serving? After all it that's not fair to the employee. And the close contact you talk about goes both ways. Don't you think waiting staff deserve to be protected from you too?

[quote Canyouexplainhowthatis]@TheVampiresWife Regardless of any of those things, a mask still protects against droplets when I’m being served.

Not all risk can be eliminated and I don’t care as much for what happens behind the scenes as much as I do what happens in close proximity to me.

Masks should be worn when taking orders etc to stop risk of the employees droplets landing on a customer directly.[/quote]
Strange that you 'don't care what happens behind the scenes' where kitchen staff may be preparing your food without masks/touching their mask then your plate or whatever, but you do care that they might not be wearing masks when serving you. Almost as if it's done for theatre, not because it's required (which it isn't).

Not all risks can be eliminated

Precisely. So stop worrying about the miniscule risk of outdoor transmission.

[quote Canyouexplainhowthatis]@IcedPurple Er, yes. That’s literally how most infection occurs. Close contact.

Do you think that being outside means that you somehow escape it? It reduces the risk somewhat but not so much if someone is directly above you and exhaling.[/quote]
Do you wear masks when seated at your table and a server is taking your order? Because surely the 'risk' goes both ways?

And what about all the people sitting close to you, eating, drinking and talking? Surely the risk is the same from them? Particularly if you're sitting downwind?

You're overthinking this. If you're that worried, probably best you stay away from hospitality for the time being.

@boredbuttercup do you wear a mask when you're being served to protect your server? even though there's no need

@boredbuttercup Yes, and I’d happily do so to play my part in offering some protection to employees.

@TheVampiresWife Based on what you’ve said so far, I don’t think you understand or know enough about this subject to discuss it, so I’m going to leave it there.

[quote Canyouexplainhowthatis]@boredbuttercup Yes, and I’d happily do so to play my part in offering some protection to employees.

@TheVampiresWife Based on what you’ve said so far, I don’t think you understand or know enough about this subject to discuss it, so I’m going to leave it there.[/quote]
I know that hospitality staff don't need to wear masks outdoors, and that's really all I need to know. I'll listen to the science (which says the risk of outdoors transmission is negligible) rather than just someone's opinion on the internet.

[quote Canyouexplainhowthatis]@IcedPurple Er, yes. That’s literally how most infection occurs. Close contact.

Do you think that being outside means that you somehow escape it? It reduces the risk somewhat but not so much if someone is directly above you and exhaling.[/quote]
Being outdoors doesn't reduce the risk 'somewhat'. It reduces the risk massively. And I'm not sure where you prefer to dine, but I don't have much experience of waiters being "directly above you and exhaling".

And presumably you dine alone when you go out? Just to prevent having someone sitting directly next to you and exhaling disease laden 'droplets' all over you?

Not to mention that masks aren't some amazing droplet preventer. Their efficacy is much debated.

@TheVampiresWife

No i don't. I am the server and resent the Covid police coming around trying to impose extra rules on us which aren't necessary to suit their own sensibilities.

I pointed out about customers wearing masks because I really resent people saying i somehow put the customer at risk but with no regard that the risk is the exact same for the server, and no one seems to care about that one bit.

And in the case of where i work the vast majority of customers have been vaccinated whilst the servers are young and so haven't, so their risk is reduced further and ours isn't. Yet we somehow have to abide by their own extra made up rules to keep them safe but they wouldn't so the same (wear a mask when we're serving them to prevent their 'droplet spray' on us) to keep us safe.

@Thegentleman As I said above, all staff at pubs I’ve seen are wearing masks. Based on this thread it seems lots of places are doing the same. It’s the right thing to do.

@canyouexplainhowthatis

It’s the right thing to do

This is your opinion. Presumably as someone who's not on their feet for 11 hours a day, running around between the freezing outside and warm inside, dealing with demanding customers who you can't move fast enough for so have to run and get tired/out of breath. Not wearing the same mask for these long days, day in day out.

Also presumably as someone with no expert knowledge in viruses, transmission and epidemiology.

So i'll take your opinion with a pinch of salt thank you very much. If you don't like it, go somewhere else

@boredbuttercup Wow, if you’re running and “out of breath” presumably you’re breathing quite heavily over punters. You really should be wearing a mask. Yikes.

@Thegentleman www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(20)30293-4/fulltext

Thus is awful. Do people want to return to lockdown? All they need to do is wear an effing mask.

@Thegentleman www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

@boredbuttercup Also, I just want to say that I do appreciate how shite working in hospitality is right now, and this isn’t an attack on it. Everyone is trying their best.

My issue is with the governments shoddy guidelines and enforcement. Many other countries have much stricter rules in place.

Many have died and to avoid going back there, the bare minimum isn’t enough to stop it.