Servers at pub not wearing masks - is this ok?

[Catyness]

I've been to 2 pubs now since they've re-opened outside. I was surprised last night that the servers/waiters weren't wearing any type of face covering. They stood around 1m away to take the order then would be right at the table when delivering the drinks.

Is this allowed? Is this safe?

I did feel uncomfortable and won't be rushing back there I'm afraid.

The “science” isn’t looking at this specific scenario when it says outdoor transmission is low. In fact, if you read the literature it will usually state that part of the reason outdoor transmission is low is because people are able to socially distance etc. It also says that distance and masks should still be used. This scenario shows NO distance and NO mask. It’s also been stated that outdoor transmission is most likely in congested areas, like queues for supermarkets etc. I don’t know about you, but where I am the pubs are HEAVING. Tables back to back. The perfect breeding ground.

I can’t believe there are people who believe covid will not infect you just because you’re outside, even if someone is standing directly over you talking.

God give me strength.

@Canyouexplainhowthatis

The “science” isn’t looking at this specific scenario when it says outdoor transmission is low. In fact, if you read the literature it will usually state that part of the reason outdoor transmission is low is because people are able to socially distance etc. It also says that distance and masks should still be used. This scenario shows NO distance and NO mask. It’s also been stated that outdoor transmission is most likely in congested areas, like queues for supermarkets etc. I don’t know about you, but where I am the pubs are HEAVING. Tables back to back. The perfect breeding ground.

I can’t believe there are people who believe covid will not infect you just because you’re outside, even if someone is standing directly over you talking.

God give me strength.

All evidence shows that outdoor transmission is extremely low. That’s not just something we ‘believe’, it’s what the evidence shows. But obviously your ‘common sense’ trumps evidence 🤷🏻‍♀️

No it's not ok. They should be masked as they will be having to get close to you/your table to serve any food or drink. Kind of the whole point of social distancing

Each council sent out guidelines to pubs and bars prior to April 12th about what they expected them to do. In our area we absolutely must wear masks when serving customers. And tbh a lot of the people out seem to be completely selfish and thoughtless when it comes to Covid rules, so I’m over the moon to have a mask and visor while working personally!

@TheOneWithTheBigNose Errr.... yes, “science” has said that, ASSUMING you are keeping a distance. Of course being outside at a distance is less dangerous than indoors at a distance due to the obvious - fresh air etc

They are not saying and have never said that being outdoors, standing directly in front of someone and talking, is low risk. In fact it is high risk, which is exactly why track and trace doesn’t JUST notify you of indoor encounters.

Extremely low is not the same as non existent though. And if we want our road map to go ahead on time and irreversibly, then keeping transmission as low as possible is a good idea.

Cases looking like they are rising here, both at Upper tier and county level. Can’t see any obvious outbreak, so looks like it’s an even spread across the district rather than one.

[quote Canyouexplainhowthatis]@TheOneWithTheBigNose Errr.... yes, “science” has said that, ASSUMING you are keeping a distance. Of course being outside at a distance is less dangerous than indoors at a distance due to the obvious - fresh air etc

They are not saying and have never said that being outdoors, standing directly in front of someone and talking, is low risk. In fact it is high risk, which is exactly why track and trace doesn’t JUST notify you of indoor encounters.[/quote]
No, not assuming you keep a distance. Evidence shows that outside transmission throughout the pandemic has been low, despite people not keeping their distance in many situations.
People expected a surge in cases after people packed in to beaches, after people had VE Day parties, after protests, after people gathered in parks... it didn’t happen.
Like you said, bars and restaurants are currently very busy outside. Very little social distancing going on. They’ve been open for 2 weeks now, so where is the increase in cases?

IIRC quite a lot of transmission in S American countries has been linked to outdoor markets.

Personally I think that if you are bothered about Covid transmission, you really should not be going to an outside venue serving alcohol. The real risk is very low but if you think you are susceptible do not go!

Maybe their employer (pub landlords etc) made them do a LFT and it’s negative.
I find it bemusing that people think covid can just happen if people are together. Covid only spreads by infected people.

@TheOneWithTheBigNose Pubs are full of youngsters. Many who would likely be asymptomatic, and no need for a test.

Cases will rise, that’s a given. The government and scientists have already said that and they’ve specifically stated they will rise due to these restrictions being lifted.

Did you think they wouldn’t?

I’m not suggesting it wasn’t expected, just that if isn’t true that it isn’t already happening. It might not on a national level, but on a regional level some of the regions that have high levels have seen big drops, which might be hiding the fact that cases are rising in other regions.

No I don’t think cases won’t rise when things reopen. Never said that. Evidence shows that outdoor transmission is low. This is based on the fact that throughout the pandemic, outdoor transmission has been low. You can argue against that all you like, but it is a fact. If you think your ‘common sense’ beats scientific evidence, then great. Wish I had your self confidence.
Fact remains that it is now a legal requirement for servers to wear masks outdoors. This is because outdoor transmission is low. If it wasn’t, masks would be mandated for servers outside, like it is inside.
But we’re going round in circles now.

*not a legal requirement

More likely to die by being hit by a bus or tram than by Covid in the UK currently.

If flu can kill and walking across the road can kill and COVID is really no dangerous then what exactly is happening in India? Or Brazil?

I honestly couldn't care. I like seeing people without masks. It feels more normal.

@FFSFFSFFS

I'm pretty chilled but I would one hundred percent expect them to be masked! They're then going inside and standing next to each other without masks.

45 active cases can very quickly become thousands - HOW CAN NO ONE STILL NOT UNDERSTAND THIS

It defies belief. But the denial is still strong out there.

If flu can kill and walking across the road can kill and COVID is really no dangerous then what exactly is happening in India? Or Brazil?

The level of vaccinations between India/Brazil and UK is very different.

WIth the UK vaccination progress achieved so far, we are more likely to follow Israel trend. Cases there continued to fall even after the country re-opened.

I am with those scientists who do not expect to see a wave in summer (and there are plenty of those). There may be an exit wave in autumn (since Covid appears to be seasonal) but its size will depend on levels of vaccinations and vaccine breakthroughs.

No evidence that covid is seasonal yet and plenty to suggest it isn’t.

It’s not so much the aerosol spread that would worry me as droplet spread from unmasked people standing and possibly talking over my food or utensils I was about to use. I’m not sure that being outside make much of a difference to that.

@PerveenMistry well over half of adults have had at least one vaccination. All vulnerable have been vaccinated, most of them fully. Vaccines prevent serious illness in almost all cases. We're testing 2m people a day and there are currently fewer than 1 in 600 covid cases in the UK.

Even if cases were to rise, serious illness/deaths will not increase the way they have done in the past. It's not denial, it's evidence.

If flu can kill and walking across the road can kill and COVID is really no dangerous then what exactly is happening in India? Or Brazil?

Extreme widespread poverty, lack of vaccines and poor health care are all, tragically, factors at play in those countries. We do not have those factors in play here (although there is far too much poverty here, it's not on the same scale). It's ridiculous to compare the plights of those countries with the UK.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

No evidence that covid is seasonal yet and plenty to suggest it isn’t.

It’s not so much the aerosol spread that would worry me as droplet spread from unmasked people standing and possibly talking over my food or utensils I was about to use. I’m not sure that being outside make much of a difference to that.

But the unmasked customers eating/drinking/talking near you would be as much of an issue, surely? And those passing you to go to the toilet/get to their table? None of the tables at any of the outdoor seating areas near me are 2m apart. At many of them you're sitting practically back to back with the table behind you.

Neither are the ones near me and a lot have marquees up, which is why I’m unlikely to be going any time soon.

But if I was going, I’d rather choose one where the people coming up to my table and talking to me were wearing masks.

The risk from somebody just passing you is minimal, so that worries me less.

@Porcupineintherough

If flu can kill and walking across the road can kill and COVID is really no dangerous then what exactly is happening in India? Or Brazil?

The effects of extreme, wide-scale poverty, malnutrition as the result of that, extreme over-population, wide-scale corruption at all levels of government and drug traffic in Brazil, and stunning gap between rich and poor. There is simply no comparison among the UK and India and Brazil. Just none. At the very least, both India and Brazil have vastly larger land masses and populations than the UK, India far more than Brazil, which sits at about 213m, India at 1.3bn at least.

Ever been to either? I was far more terrified of being shot or kidnapped or contracting any number of diseases in Brazil and that was back in the 00's.