Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots

[Whichjab]

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/astrazeneca-vaccine-side-effects-blood-clots-under-40-b931498.html

This is concerning, especially as there is limited research into combining vaccinations. I feel that the trust in vaccination is being eroded. I have always been pro vacc but feeling much less so atm.
I'm not sure I will get my second jab now.

@Schulte Sorry something's wrong there - the only meningitis you "ride out" is viral and therefore it can't have been caused by the jab.

Isn’t the Yellow Card Report usually out by now?

[quote Schulte]@CharlotteRose90 sorry you’ve had such a bad experience, fingers crossed they find the cause of your headaches and you’re better soon. I know a lady who’s also had headaches since her AZ, she has been told it’s meningitis caused by the jab and she’ll just have to ride it out. Apparently there is a known link in people with bee or wasp allergies, I haven’t read anything about it myself but that’s what she was told.[/quote]
Thank you. Holy cow I’m so sorry about your friend that’s awful and completely scary to think it can cause it. Yeah I know a friend of mine had the Pfizer one and they think it caused an attack of Ms. Not been confirmed yet but she didn’t survive it. It’s a scary thing but I try and see the positives .

www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/news/risk-of-rare-blood-clotting-higher-for-covid-19-than-for-vaccines

@Bunbury952

Isn’t the Yellow Card Report usually out by now?

It’s out now, totals are now 242 cases and 49 deaths. Fir the first time (I think) there is a breakdown by sex. M: 100 cases F: 141, deaths M: 17, F: 32.

So looks like women are running much higher prevalence of serious cases.

I really wish they’d provide a proper incidence rate. The raw numbers are there but not per vaccine given.

@IndigoC isn't that last weeks?

@YukoandHiro I'm no doctor but it must be something like this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug-induced_aseptic_meningitis

This thread is so frustrating, some posters are so determined to defend AZ and shut down any discussion.

The blood clot issue related to AZ is not like other blood clotting issues - it has literally been specifically named as VITT (Vaccine-induced Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia). The MHRA is not denying the link between the vaccine and these clotting events at all.

Most of us on this thread wanting to discuss the issue are actually very pro-vax and keen to get vaccinated quickly, but just want to be given the most up to date information and the same opportunity to access a safer vaccine than people 10 years younger than us have been given.

[quote whataballbag]@IndigoC isn't that last weeks?[/quote]
No, it’s dated today:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

CVT cases are up 33 and deaths 8 on last week.

[quote Schulte]@YukoandHiro I'm no doctor but it must be something like this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug-induced_aseptic_meningitis[/quote]
That’s so scary. I’ve had 2 of the drugs listed on that page 🙈🙈

@nordica

This thread is so frustrating, some posters are so determined to defend AZ and shut down any discussion.

The blood clot issue related to AZ is not like other blood clotting issues - it has literally been specifically named as VITT (Vaccine-induced Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia). The MHRA is not denying the link between the vaccine and these clotting events at all.

Most of us on this thread wanting to discuss the issue are actually very pro-vax and keen to get vaccinated quickly, but just want to be given the most up to date information and the same opportunity to access a safer vaccine than people 10 years younger than us have been given.

100%, I’m very pro-vax and want to be vaccinated very much, just concerned as to why our age cutoff is low compared to most of the rest of the world. I think women under 50 ought to be offered an alternative based on current emerging data.

I wish they’d provide the number of jabs per age group, it’s so hard to work out the actual incidence for specific age groups. I’m in my 30s and female and just want to be able to make an informed decision re my second dose as I know the incidence for my sex and age is higher than the 10.4 per million. I wonder if it’s because the clots take a while to present, it’s then difficult to work out how many doses have been given in the time frame that would allow for accurate calculations to be made.

The highest number of clots and deaths reported today is in the 50-59 age group which would suggest that data for the under 50s recently vaccinated hasn’t trickled through yet. I’ve noticed that week on week the number of first AZ doses given has steadily declined so shouldn’t we now see clotting cases decline too? Overall we’re now at a risk of nearly 11 in a million doses and it’s still rising. But still the advice to get the jab remains the same.

@IndigoC I think it comes down to the lack of availability of alternative vaccinations and how much we may see case rates and deaths increase if there’s a slow down in vaccinations. There’s a fine balance between individual risk v benefits and the risks v benefits of society as a whole. Personally I’d like to see a different vaccination at least offered to younger people. I’ve already had my first dose and I’m unsure about what I’ll do about my second.

@Schulte I think you’re spot on as the data is already a week out of date and it takes a little while for clots to become apparent and be diagnosed and reported and it’s not long ago that under 50s started being vaccinated.

@Rainbowsandstorms I think you’re probably right but it is frustrating. Same with the overall data - eg 6 second dose incidents from about 6 million second doses, up from 4 in 4 million last week, but impossible to judge from that what the real incidence rate is likely to be. I suppose if we had the data on how many had been given three weeks ago we could do a “likely worst case scenario” calculation

[quote Rainbowsandstorms]@IndigoC I think it comes down to the lack of availability of alternative vaccinations and how much we may see case rates and deaths increase if there’s a slow down in vaccinations. There’s a fine balance between individual risk v benefits and the risks v benefits of society as a whole. Personally I’d like to see a different vaccination at least offered to younger people. I’ve already had my first dose and I’m unsure about what I’ll do about my second.[/quote]
Yes, it comes down to over-reliance on one vaccine at this phase of the campaign, unfortunately.

I do think we should be considering offering a choice to women under 50. Most people don’t seem to care but for those of us that are more risk averse and willing to wait a few extra weeks it would be good to be offered certain centres doings Pfizer or Moderna.

I strongly suspect it will be shown in the long term that a woman in her 30s (or even 40s) was at higher risk than a man in his 20s. Looking at that German data women were over 3x more at risk.

PS also due my second next week and feeling a bit cross about my friends suddenly getting Moderna and not having to worry about this! (And yes I appreciate it’s still very low risk etc etc)

The cases in women being higher put down here and in the EU to the higher percentage of women that have been vaccinated.

One reason for this is because there are more Health care workers that are women. Another is women live longer than men.
So the population is slightly tipped in the older age ranges. The other is because like with a lot of medical help offered. Men tend to be a little more reluctant at coming forwards.

Anyway I would concentrate on the age ranges of clots not the gender. Risk access from there. Though like I have said before you will have difficulty as only know the report dates. So best you can currently do accurately is over all AZ jabs given compared with overall Clot cases or deaths. Anything else is just an educated guess but still a guess.

So finally in today's MHRA report they seem to admit a sex difference:
"There is now some evidence that the reported incidence rate is higher in females compared to men although this is not seen across all age groups and the difference remains small."

Throughout this the MHRA seem intent on refusing to see what's in front of their eyes until it's too late. What happened to the precautionary principle and doing no harm?

[quote Rainbowsandstorms]@Schulte I think you’re spot on as the data is already a week out of date and it takes a little while for clots to become apparent and be diagnosed and reported and it’s not long ago that under 50s started being vaccinated.[/quote]
Under 50s that are CEV have been getting vaccinated for weeks though. So we can't presume the cases are recent at all. There are millions of CEV people.

@Whichjab

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/astrazeneca-vaccine-side-effects-blood-clots-under-40-b931498.html

This is concerning, especially as there is limited research into combining vaccinations. I feel that the trust in vaccination is being eroded. I have always been pro vacc but feeling much less so atm.
I'm not sure I will get my second jab now.

Don’t blame you After just watching the Kristi simmonds, Shawn Skelton and Angelia deselle video where they are still suffering the severe effects of a neurological disorder three months after their Jax ( modern a and fiser) that they took in January All nurses doing the right thing , their lives have been ruined Cant work, no money coming in , bills mounting up Most of the med profession turned their backs on them No compensation So distressing They have 40 in their support group and are getting contacted by more and more every day

Interestingly, there’s 30 women in the support group and only 2 men
I wonder why that is.

I hope their lives return to normal but I understand how worried they are.

Two of them were still visibly shaking throughout th shout long video

@Carefulvulvadriver

So finally in today's MHRA report they seem to admit a sex difference: "There is now some evidence that the reported incidence rate is higher in females compared to men although this is not seen across all age groups and the difference remains small."

Throughout this the MHRA seem intent on refusing to see what's in front of their eyes until it's too late. What happened to the precautionary principle and doing no harm?

Still more women have been vaccinated though. So it will sway that way. Especially as more health care workers are under 50. The findings are what Germany found as well. Stating just the same reason for it as I have.

Like quite a few who have already had the first vaccine, I'm getting increasingly less likely to have the second.

29 years old and no known underlying issues. Extremely concerning when other countries are giving an alternative second vaccine to all under 55/60.

Seems unfair that I'm driving myself crazy to the point where I can't function over this risk yet others are happily getting second doses. My mental health was already shot to shit before covid/vaccine concerns, feels like the icing on the cake.

@whataballbag

Like quite a few who have already had the first vaccine, I'm getting increasingly less likely to have the second.

29 years old and no known underlying issues. Extremely concerning when other countries are giving an alternative second vaccine to all under 55/60.

Seems unfair that I'm driving myself crazy to the point where I can't function over this risk yet others are happily getting second doses. My mental health was already shot to shit before covid/vaccine concerns, feels like the icing on the cake.

That isn't good honey. When is your second jab due? If not for a few weeks we will have way more information by then. So you should maybe try and step away. Try not to look at this stuff until nearer the time. It can do anyone's head in with all the daily/ weekly bits of information. Most of which isn't in full yet.