Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots

[Whichjab]

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/astrazeneca-vaccine-side-effects-blood-clots-under-40-b931498.html

This is concerning, especially as there is limited research into combining vaccinations. I feel that the trust in vaccination is being eroded. I have always been pro vacc but feeling much less so atm.
I'm not sure I will get my second jab now.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Presumably because they now have secured those extra Pfizer doses, they don’t need to coerce as many left to be vaccinated into accepting AZ vaccines to stay #1 in world vaccine race...,so under 40s may be offered a jab other than AZ in coming weeks.

Why do you think everyone has to be coerced into taking the vaccine? I had AZ along with nearly everyone else I know and I don't believe any of us were reluctant, more like happy to be vaccinated.

Hmmm. Maybe I think that some are coerced because of the OP saying “not sure they will get their second jab now” because the AZ data is “concerning” and many other U.K. posters that have posted on this thread and other threads about their AZ blood clot concerns and how they wish they had a choice? Maybe read the OP and the rest of the thread before claiming everyone in U.K. is happy to get the AZ vaccine?

Am I the only one quite pleased there is another possible vaccine being tested (made in Scotland i think) that uses the more “old fashioned” technique of a small amount of virus plus adjuvant.

As my principle concern is longer term implications of the newer style vaccine such as mRNA, this is good news to ken

I’m not sure where this First Nation narrative comes from, since I would have thought everyone knows we’re not?

The BBC reported it....as fact using this graphic

You're being ridiculous @PlanDeRaccordement, nowhere did I say that everyone in the UK is happy to take the AZ vaccine. Maybe you should read before you comment. In case it's too hard for you to understand I am talking about people I know who've had the vaccine, I am not claiming to speak for everyone. Jesus Christ!

The BBC graph is from 4 days ago. Today, world data on Covid vaccination progress among the 30 largest nations in world is showing US now slightly ahead of U.K.....but well ahead of neighbour/peer countries with similar populations, ie France.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

You're being ridiculous *@PlanDeRaccordement*, nowhere did I say that everyone in the UK is happy to take the AZ vaccine. Maybe you should read before you comment. In case it's too hard for you to understand I am talking about people I know who've had the vaccine, I am not claiming to speak for everyone. Jesus Christ!

Pot calling kettle black. Nowhere did I say everyone is being coerced, but you asked me Why do you think everyone has to be coerced into taking the vaccine?

And you’re upset I used the same back at you? If that made my response ridiculous, then equally so was yours.

But you seem to think a lot of people will have to be coerced rather than making a decision for themselves.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

But you seem to think a lot of people will have to be coerced rather than making a decision for themselves.

No one should be coerced. One is too many in my opinion. I haven’t really thought on how many, a little or a lot because it’s the ethics I’ve been concerned with.

The problem is, one person's idea of coercion is going to be another person's explanation of the facts and vice versa.

If you said to me 'having the vaccine will benefit the wider population' and explained the reasoning I would take it as an explanation whereas some people would think they were being bullied/blackmailed into having it. It's a very fine line for some people

@Walkaround

As for healthy versus less healthy people - why the assumption it’s only healthy people getting blood clots after vaccination, and only people secretly harbouring health weaknesses that are dying from covid?

Because very little info is being shared about who is getting these clots. In the U.K. we aren’t even been told their ages, let alone their sex. The EMA has given a useful age breakdown of risk, but hasn’t factored in sex. There has been nothing on other risk factors such as comorbidities. Possibly because there haven’t been “enough” cases to get a statistically significant result. But until that info is available, it is perfectly reasonable for people to assume that there are no risk factors that make one more or less vulnerable.

Meanwhile, there's currently a global shortage of all vaccines and the raw materials needed to make them (orders for future delivery are no good for right now). So nobody's being coerced. Almost the opposite - what with some local hubs closing, and people wanting a vaccine facing longer more inconvenient journeys to have one. There isn't enough supply to coerce anyone.

@Roonerspismed

Am I the only one quite pleased there is another possible vaccine being tested (made in Scotland i think) that uses the more “old fashioned” technique of a small amount of virus plus adjuvant.

As my principle concern is longer term implications of the newer style vaccine such as mRNA, this is good news to ken

Surely that new one (apologies I haven't seen any information about it) is using the same technology as the AZ, thus may have the same problems?

@PlanDeRaccordement I would just like to say I admire your ability to stay calm in fielding questions. I noticed yesterday a poster using words such as 'dim' and 'dense' directed at you and you didn't bite.

I agree with every one of your posts I've seen and am relieved we are finally able to have these discussions. Do you know the date of the next yellow card data release?

@Tealightsandd

Meanwhile, there's currently a global shortage of all vaccines and the raw materials needed to make them (orders for future delivery are no good for right now). So nobody's being coerced. Almost the opposite - what with some local hubs closing, and people wanting a vaccine facing longer more inconvenient journeys to have one. There isn't enough supply to coerce anyone.

I completely disagree with this and with PinkSparkly the whole country has been fed fear progoganda and emotive language is constantly used 'kill granny's etc and vaccine is being shown as the only way to get out of this (which maybe correct I'm not questioning that) there are comments on here all the time saying we have to get vaccinated to protect others etc, a great big guilt trip. Plus I am getting texts every day at 11.49am pushing me to book my next jab, I was hounded to get my first with the docs ringing me up.

And the worst thing, the vitriol when questioning the vaccine, being made out to be a crack pot anti vaxxer.

You might disagree but it's been widely reported.

If you're getting daily texts, I think you should contact the GP/your CCG/NHSE. That sounds like some sort of admin or tech error. Certain more vulnerable groups are getting a couple of follow ups but it's definitely not an ongoing daily thing. Are you CEV? Could that be why?

Meanwhile, there's currently a global shortage of all vaccines and the raw materials needed to make them (orders for future delivery are no good for right now). So nobody's being coerced.

I don't understand the above? Is there a shortage in the UK? I think the whole talk of vaccine passports a few wks ago was very much coercion. I've had the first jab.

which I don’t think so, no. The possible issue with AZ and the JJ vaccine is the GM adenovirus from chimpanzees as the vector. This is new.

The yellow card report comes out every Thursday. You can just Google it, it’s always under the same link and gets updated weekly.

Covax is largely reliant on AZ. It doesn’t really matter how much money we give if we won’t export the stuff we’ve produced to them because AZ are fulfilling the Britain first clause for stuff manufactured here. Most of what they have has come from the EU and previously India.

Not that that stopped the U.K. and AZ taking advantage of a clause that allowed it to buy vaccines meant for COVAX from the serum institute to use in the U.K.

I am baffled as to why other people don’t see this as the huge issue it is. Being caught up in graphs to be the first to have everyone vaccinated and vaccinating young, healthy people while the old and sick are dying in their hundreds and thousands elsewhere. It’s all kinds of fucked up.

I am baffled as to why other people don’t see this as the huge issue it is. Being caught up in graphs to be the first to have everyone vaccinated and vaccinating young, healthy people while the old and sick are dying in their hundreds and thousands elsewhere. It’s all kinds of fucked up.

The above is too simplistic though as we have also had one of the highest death rates.

Yes, of course there is a global shortage of the vaccine - the entire world needs vaccinating. From the personal risk perspective, I deemed it of least personal risk to me now to take up my vaccination offer now, regardless of the vaccine offered. I personally fancy my chances of having a positive outcome from the vaccine far more at the moment, when covid rates are low and there is still less mixing going on, so that I am less likely to catch covid while waiting to build up immunity, have covid already while being immunised, or to have lost good immunity due to not having finished the course before the next wave (re second jab). Also, I fancy my chances better now in hospital if I fall ill than I would if waiting until there’s another covid wave. I would be extraordinarily unlucky to be the unluckiest of the unlucky who not only gets a rare type of blood clot but also then dies of it. Also, Israel is investigating a possible link to myocarditis in young people who have had two doses of the Pfizer vaccine - this has included deaths. I don’t see that as preferable. All vaccines are risky. Having no vaccination is risky. Having half a dose of your vaccine is risky. Having started, you might as well finish, or you might just be taking a wider variety of risks.

It isn’t simplistic at all. It suits people to believe that.

Having half a dose of your vaccine is risky. Having started, you might as well finish, or you might just be taking a wider variety of risks.

I don’t see the logic of the above when boosters are needed every twelve months or even every six months. If someone is worried about something, why would they take repeated doses?

I think some people are more risk adverse. I have ne er taken illegal drugs. When I was younger, I didn’t ‘try’ drugs. I never took a pill/a popper/heroin/coke/magic mushrooms. I’m not comparing the vaccine to any of these but using as an example of how worried I would be about the risks involved. I wouldn’t ride a motor bike as the risks are higher than cars. Some people are happy to try new things, the payout is worth the risks. We are all different.

So the EU is indeed set to sue AZ. For vaccine delivery delays... It appears that they do want it afterall.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/26/eu-starts-legal-action-against-astrazeneca-over-vaccine-shortfalls

Again, there is a global shortage of vaccines and the raw materials needed to make them.

It would make more sense for America to donate their AZ stock than for the UK to do so. We need it. America doesn't. They've said they have enough Pfizer and Moderna so won't be needing AZ.