Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots

[Whichjab]

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/astrazeneca-vaccine-side-effects-blood-clots-under-40-b931498.html

This is concerning, especially as there is limited research into combining vaccinations. I feel that the trust in vaccination is being eroded. I have always been pro vacc but feeling much less so atm.
I'm not sure I will get my second jab now.

The risk of having a case of long Covid that lasts over 12 weeks with significant debilitating effects (more than a change of smell) - is that still higher than the risk of a blood clot?

Yes. The 2% estimate put forward by Tim Spector covers cases with significant debilitating impact (e.g. chronic fatigue, severe pains, breathing difficulties, etc).

Of course, 2% is a blended number with late 40-50s being at a higher risk and 20-30 year olds being at a lower risk. However, even for younger people the number is still significantly higher than 1 in 125,000.

The unknown factor is probability of a young person getting Covid (and therefore long Covid) and it is clearly lower when the community prevalence is down.

Why ridiculous? Unvaxxed UK citizens are no less likely to grow new strains than anyone else!

Why ridiculous? Unvaxxed UK citizens are no less likely to grow new strains than anyone else!

Exactly, the situation in India and Brazil should show people how very sensible it is to worry about it. Do we really want all the vaccination gains undone?

@Missillusioned - the risk of dying from covid in 20-somethings who are infected with covid is far higher than the risk of a rare blood clot from the vaccination - you are highly unlikely to die of covid at that age, but nevertheless still far more likely to die from covid if you get it than from the vaccination. So the risk calculation for each age group is affected by the prevalence of covid in the community at that time which, as we all know by now, somewhat aggravatingly keeps going up when we start opening up society. I don’t want everything to be closed down again, so I decided the minuscule vaccination risk was worth it.

I suppose you’ve had years of sleepless nights worrying about possible flu mutations too have you?

@bumbleymummy - I think the people who make the flu vaccinations and world health authorities have had sleepless nights over that!!!

@bumbleymummy

I suppose you’ve had years of sleepless nights worrying about possible flu mutations too have you?

Don't be daft!

I suppose you’ve had years of sleepless nights worrying about possible flu mutations too have you?

Nope, because the vaccine programme has it under a degree of control that people are happy to live with (re deaths).

In time, I hope we can say the same for COVID.

We need to get out of the acute phase first though and high vax rates across the whole pop is the way to do that.

The flu vaccination program that doesn’t involve vaccinating the entire population and therefore leaves millions of possible opportunities for ‘vaccine resistant mutant strains’ to arise in the unvaccinated?

Oh please don't! The constraints on who does and does not get a flu vaccine are monitored every year. A fucking fortune is spent tracking strains, logistics, modelling etc.

The same infrastructure will probably be used with covid, for some as yet unknowable time period!

The flu vaccination program that doesn’t involve vaccinating the entire population

Because we’re in an endemic phase with flu as the strains have stabilised.

Not applicable to COVID yet.

Not sure why that’s so hard to understand.

@bumbleymummy - every single primary school aged child is offered the flu vaccine as part of the school vaccination programme every year and they now also offer it to year 7 children. Every year they increase the number of people they offer the flu vaccine to, for free as part of a national programme, because they are terrified of a flu pandemic. Why this idiot obsession still, anyway, with constantly referring to the flu? Covid isn’t the flu, it’s covid.

Yes, I know it’s flu and I know it’s different to coronavirus. It mutates more often for a start (WHO).

I’ll leave you all to your worrying. It’s a beautiful day and I have no interest in having conversations with people who seem intent on finding something to worry about.

It’s a beautiful day and I have no interest in having conversations with people who seem intent on finding something to worry about.

You have no answers then. worth reflecting on.

If you had no significant problems with your first jab, it would be completely illogical not to get the second one. Your risk from Covid is far, far higher.

I think people would trust this kind of completely unscientific opinion more if they hadn’t heard just a few weeks ago that there was ZERO link to these blood clots, that there was less risk of having a blood clot if you were vaccinated not more and that all of Europe were basically just jealous and trying to malign our great British vaccine.

@TheKeatingFive

It’s a beautiful day and I have no interest in having conversations with people who seem intent on finding something to worry about.

You have no answers then. worth reflecting on.

Answers to what? You didn’t ask me a question. I’ve seen lots of your posts across other threads and you strike me as one of those people who just wants to worry about something. There are clearly a few others on this thread. Enjoy their company and have a nice day. I know I will! 😊

It’s a beautiful day and I have no interest in having conversations with people who seem intent on finding something to worry about.

I think you must be mixing me up with someone else. I’m not particularly concerned about COVID. I am very pro vax though, that’s where we differ.

What I can’t fathom, from your posts, is that you look at what’s happening in India/Brazil and then decide there’s no danger in letting COVID rip through an unvaxxed population in the U.K. That makes no sense. I understand you desperately want it to be true, but you need to apply some logic.

Enjoy your day

@bumbleymummy - I’m not the one making a fuss and worrying about the dangers of a vaccine, though. I just want to be allowed to get on with my life and the quickest route to that is via vaccination. So what’s your problem with that, if you have no worries about anything??

What I can’t fathom, from your posts, is that you look at what’s happening in India/Brazil and then decide there’s no danger in letting COVID rip through an unvaxxed population in the U.K. That makes no sense.

That’s not what I took from this post. I understood it to mean that we are a global society, so the argument that younger people in the U.K. should be vaccinated to prevent variants (even if the vaccine is a risk) doesn’t stand up at all because the way the virus is ripping through other countries (and the total mis management of our borders) means that we will still be exposed to plenty of mutations even if every single person in the U.K. is vaccinated.

means that we will still be exposed to plenty of mutations even if every single person in the U.K. is vaccinated.

Well we will, yes. Border control can be used to keep on top of it.

But why we would decide we want to introduce MORE risk and uncertainty by allowing it to rip through the population in the U.K., which we can’t control via any other means than lockdown, is what I don’t get.

It’s funny how in a thread for worrying about low-risk blood
clot events, other people are being rebuked for worrying about other things...

I understood it to mean that we are a global society, Ah, but we aren't any more - remember the utter unfairness of covid passports... wah wah

So far, variants are making vaccines less effective, not ineffective. Given our poor border controls, which are showing no signs of tightening in the near future (in fact, the opposite), I would say that’s a good argument for vaccinating as many people as possible as quickly as possible, as the less effective a vaccine, the more people need to be vaccinated for it to nevertheless be effective at keeping an unwanted virus under reasonable control. As @bumbleymummy so helpfully points out, covid mutates more slowly than flu, so vaccinating as many people as possible now should hopefully keep things under control for long enough for boosters that are effective against the most dangerous variants can be made in time, thus enabling life to continue without further lockdown. No guarantees, of course, but it seems to me it’s our best option.

Now ask @bumbleymummy if she has had her vaccine and to explain her reasoning!

For those considering alternatives... my SIL had her first jab this week. Her appointment letter said it would be AZ, she called and asked for an alternative and was given Pfizer instead. She is 30 and was worried as in other countries AZ is not recommended for her age.