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Original poster

People who rely on unscientific opinion

27 replies

RaspberryCoulis · 14/04/2021 23:38

How do you deal with people - or respond to them - when they are swayed by the most unscientific opinion out there?

Spoke to someone I know this morning - early 40s, has her own underlying health problems, and is a carer for an older relative. She has had the first dose of the AZ about a month ago, no serious issues.

First thing she says is that she's very worried about this clotting thing and the AZ and is thinking that she won't go for her second jab when called. I say that as far as I knew the very very rare issue with clots was after the first dose only, and she should absolutely go and have the second dose. And that as soon as I get my appointment I'll be skipping in to get my first dose of whatever they offer me.

She then said :

my hairdresser told me that it's after the second jab you have to worry, not the first

and

Oxford University has taken their name off the AZ jab because they don't want to be associated with "all these deaths"

and

the same hairdresser's friend's uncle had the AZ vaccine and had to have half of his leg amputated because of a clot. Hmm

Now this is someone who I chat to but wouldn't class as a friend. More of a work relationship. What I really wanted to do was laugh and tell her she was being spectacularly dim, and what medical qualifications her hairdresser had. But it's a real issue - people do believe things that other people tell them, the horror stories. And lots of people aren't that bright, are a bit scared about the whole vaccine/covid thing and latch on to stuff.

Typical MN response would probably to advise saying something really rude and abrupt, thus ruining the relationship entirely. But what DO you say??? I just kept reiterating that DH and I were happy to have ours and that she really ought to speak to her GP if she was worried.

OP posts:
GoldfinchCharm · 15/04/2021 00:03

I'd keep my opinion to myself, I think.

There are plenty of people who'd consider the idea of "skipping in to get whatever they offer you" to be based on pretty sketchy "science".

NancyBirch · 15/04/2021 00:05

Why are you so concerned regarding her choice to possibly not have the 2nd jab? You may be happy to skip down for your jab but what she does is absolutely none of your business, you don't have to say anything.

Blessex · 15/04/2021 00:09

@RaspberryCoulis I’m with you. It’s infuriating. I would probably roll my eyes and move on though. People’s assessment of risk and relying on rumour, opinion and Uncle Fred and ignoring the highly trained data and science in light of a dangerous virus that could mutate to get more dangerous has been eye opening during this pandemic.

SD1978 · 15/04/2021 00:14

Because people trust anecdotes more than something technical and faceless when they are scared. Because the media has turned fear into profits without given any thought to the consequence of that.

Blessex · 15/04/2021 00:17

@SD1978 ah yes I forgot about the media. In my opinion some elements of the media have been irresponsible during this pandemic. Creating sensational headlines and not balancing it with the actual truth. Click bait. All comes down to money unfortunately.

AfternoonToffee · 15/04/2021 00:17

the same hairdresser's friend's uncle had the AZ vaccine and had to have half of his leg amputated because of a clot.

Well, tbf, my MIL had the AZ jab, then a blood clot was discovered behind her knee, no treatment options available and she died (she wouldn't have survived surgery) Now absolutely it was a pure coincidence, she was unwell and elderly, it isn't that unusual, but if I was of the mindset that there was an issue with the vac then this would have really sowed a lot of seeds.

Torvean · 15/04/2021 00:48

The further away the victim is the less likely. Eg my aunt had a problem is more believable, than my hairdressers cousins husband.

It's clots in ppl brains that are the worry its causes specific symptoms. That is why they were telling ppl to speak to a Dr if they had a severe headache worse than they had ever had. Or a really severe headache lasting several days.

Tell your friend 1 vaccine won't cut it on a vaccine passport.

ImTheWolfToday · 15/04/2021 05:45

I would ask whether the hairdresser had any scientific or medical background. Assuming not (perfectly possible of course) I’d ask why they trusted her opinion over the Chief Medical Officers, JCVI, MHRA and worldwide expert conclusions and make it clear who I would be listening to. Asking people to justify their conclusion, rather than outright just challenging it is better i think.

StarCat2020 · 15/04/2021 06:07

A couple of weeks ago I was less unkind but now I just think don't waste your breath as you cannot fix stupid

Kenshi · 15/04/2021 06:13

Loads of people are like this, it's why we have problems like brexit.
For years the brexiters bleated about how they were tired of 'experts' and 'facts' then as soon as this killer bat lurgy turned up they were like 'where them facts at' lmao.

TrufflyPig · 15/04/2021 06:14

It's bloody infuriating. But like others have said I doubt you will convince someone who has gone down this path. Bite your tongue and move on.

everythingthelighttouches · 15/04/2021 07:00

I think you’ve done the only thing you can do in this conversation which is to state you think the risk is small and you’re happy to have it.
Hopefully she’ll hear enough people saying this.

It is infuriating and depressing though.

For the PP who said “why do you care/why is it your business?”

We’re you under a rock over the last year???

If people don’t get vaccinated because of a minuscule risk of a clot, there is 100% chance of another lockdown!!!!

everythingthelighttouches · 15/04/2021 07:00

We’re =were

bumbleymummy · 15/04/2021 07:03

If people don’t get vaccinated because of a minuscule risk of a clot, there is 100% chance of another lockdown!!!!

^ Another unscientific opinion

SilverGlitterBaubles · 15/04/2021 07:16

What's worse is those people spouting nonsense online with a 'Dr' title or implying that they have a medial/ science background. Some have political and commercial interests and others are quacks with faux qualifications in fad diets and dodgy supplements with a book to flog. A family member sends me links to these people all the time and believes everything they say but mistrusts real actual scientists and experts when it comes to Covid and vaccines. It's infuriating.

everythingthelighttouches · 15/04/2021 07:25

bumbleymummy

If people don’t get vaccinated because of a minuscule risk of a clot, there is 100% chance of another lockdown!!!!

^ Another unscientific opinion

Well I hold my hands up to not being measured and calm and for being absolutist, but honestly, I’ve done that patiently with people for a year now, carefully pulling together data and opinion from experts in the appropriate field, politely rebutting nonsense etc.

But bumbleymummy how do you think we’re going to get out of this???
if a small % of our population is only partially vaccinated??
What’s changed?

Original poster
RaspberryCoulis · 15/04/2021 07:56

@NancyBirch

Why are you so concerned regarding her choice to possibly not have the 2nd jab? You may be happy to skip down for your jab but what she does is absolutely none of your business, you don't have to say anything.
Because if I don't refute her nonsense, or just smile and nod and make sympathetic noises, she then repeats it to someone else, and someone else, and someone else and these rumours about people's legs dropping off grow like topsy.
OP posts:
BarbaraofSeville · 15/04/2021 08:45

From over 20 years of talking to members of the public about various hazards that many people worry disproportionately about, I've learned that it's pretty much impossible to change anyone's mind once they're convinced that The Bad Thing Will Happen, because even when you present them with indisputable evidence, explain how correlation is not the same as causation and the importance of repeatable data from good quality studies on representative populations not 'my mate did that and died' type anecdotes, they just dismiss you as 'well you would say that because you're part of the cover up'.

And it's got worse as the more the internet has penetrated so much into more people's lives. I've thankfully stepped back from this sort of thing in the last 5-10 years because you can waste a lot of time arguing with crazy and its just soul destroying.

MildredPuppy · 15/04/2021 08:56

I think you said the right thing. That you are happy to have it and a GP is a reliable source of information.

However, i do think trust in our government is very low right now. Other countries also have the same evidence and are making different decisions. They would all say they are using science.

ChocOrange1 · 15/04/2021 08:57

I would just say "we will have to agree to disagree " and change the subject. You're not going to change her mind and she isn't going to change yours so its just a waste of everyone's time.

savethegrannies · 15/04/2021 08:59

There is no law that says we must have the vaccine. It has already been made clear that those who do not get vaccinated will be discriminated against eg cant travel, some workplaces will ban them. Surely that is enough?
Also note that a lot of ethnical minorities have refused the vaccine as they - with good reason! - have a mistrust of the authorities. These will now face a further level of discrimination for declining a vaccine they have no legal requirement to take. A lot of mumsnetters are quite vocal on issues of discrimination but are strangely quiet on this ...

savethegrannies · 15/04/2021 09:05

I also believe the erosion of trust in government has a huge part to play in all of this. We were told quite categorically that vaccines were our way out of this. The goalposts have continually been moved.
Some people are probably thinking, what’s the point of having a vaccine if it changes nothing? Who is to say they won’t move the goalposts again in a month or two?

savethegrannies · 15/04/2021 09:08

.. oh and given what type of thread this is, and to save posters time:

  • Yes, I am stupid
  • Yes I am a conspiracy theorist
  • Yes I am a covid denier
  • Yes I am anti vax
  • Yes i think Bill Gates wants to insert microchips into us all etc
I think that covers the usual insults 🤣
ANewDawnANewDay · 15/04/2021 09:13

I say " well, it's one of those things , isn't it ... They say there's a much higher risk of dying crossing the road but we do it anyway. Sometimes you just got to do what you got to do, isn't it".

Surprisingly this has worked better than scientific papers of a few people!! I did change their minds!

roguetomato · 15/04/2021 09:20

Just present her with scientific evidence. You don't need to be rude, even if she still doesn't believe.