Annoying how much negativity towards vaccination there is on MN

[Tonylepony]

It’s actually verging on irresponsible that every other thread in this section is scaremongering about the coronavirus vaccination which basically is our only way out of this hell. If they’re not going on about the almost negligible chance of having a blood clot, there’s some other complaint about a random side effect. I know a lot of people in RL who’ve had the AZ and we’re on the over 40s here. Not one person has has anything worse than feeling tired the day after. We should be grateful for this jab and the negativity really needs to stop before the vaccination rollout is jeopardised.

Other social media sites have started linking to vaccine facts automatically. It’s only again in MN that I see it being repeatedly discussed but zero linking to reliable sources of information by the site itself. I agree it is irresponsible IMO.

This! If people have concerns these are the places to look!

It's the drip drip drip effect of the number of threads every single day that I find most disturbing!

I agree OP. Whilst it's normal and healthy to voice concerns, I feel that those concerns should more appropriately be voiced towards their GPs or health care professionals, that will point them in the right direction, towards properly sourced scientific evidence and advice.
It is concerning that those with concerns would automatically trust strangers in an anonymous forum.
In the last few days I've seen a post where the OP has cited a blog article, written by some American Health guru, trying to sell his services, and gut annoyed when everyone on the thread pointed out the flaws in his argument.
I've seen several posters link to YouTube videos by renowned anti- vaxxers, then hit really angry, and used phrases such as "sheeples" to insult the posters who are more measured and apparently better informed.
I've seen others that link their "sources". When scrutinised more thoroughly the sources tend to be a combination of the aforementioned YouTube videos and American health gurus with an anti-vax agenda ( usually financial gain).

It's quite worrying.
To be fair, MN are usually totally on it, and tend to delete posts that are scaremongering or generating panic in their readers

@Aliceandthemarchhare do you make all your decisions based on discussions on mumsnet?

That's actually a really good point OP. In my opinion, nobody should be allowed to discuss things I don't like. It's irresponsible and childish... And scaremongering... And maybe killing granny? Although god knows she's been jabbed within an inch of her life by now

I agree OP. It's good to discuss vaccines, but way too much space is being taken up by damaging rumours and scaremongering, not enough proper science and stats. While yes its a personal choice to get the vaccine, your choice does affect everyone else. So if you decide not to get the vaccine on the basis of unfounded rumour not science, and scaremonger to influence others not to get the vaccine, it makes me cross and yes I'm going to judge you.

Absolutely not, but given there’s a number of people of my sex (female) age (40) and in a similar situation (TTC / breastfeeding, etc) it’s a reasonable place to ask.

I'm very pro-vaccination and eager to get mine, but still also closely following the blood clot situation.

I think in general transparency is good. I'd rather the MHRA or the government tells us about potential issues and explains the science as much as possible, including in an evolving situation, than doesn't tell us.

I don't think it's scaremongering to discuss policy changes in other countries, for example. In the case of the AZ vaccine, many, many other countries now wouldn't give it to the age groups that make up the majority of MN posters.

The problem with MN threads is that you'll just never know what you read is true. People are also much more likely to report negative experiences - a bit like review websites are more likely to have the most unhappy customers leave a review, not those who had an average ok-ish experience. You'll also see the same posters repeatedly so even if someone's friend or sister did have a blood clot, when it's posted on twenty threads it looks like it must be happening a lot more than it is. And obviously some stories will just be made up completely or even cleverly disguised anti-vaxx posts who ask a question but actually just perpetuate misinformation.

Important to remember that most people only comment about something if they have a negative opinion.

I had side effects after mine which meant I was unable to look after my children the day afterwards. Thanks to people who shared experiences on here and in real life I was prepared for the possibility of this happening and it meant that a) I didn’t panic and b) my DH was on hand to look after the children.

I don’t think people sharing their experiences is negative or scaremongering; I found it reassuring that it wasn’t just me.

Just to add that I have the flu vaccine every year and have never had so much as a sore arm from that.

@elaboratethen I agree with everything you say and have seen similar posts on here disseminating misinformation. There are definitely some posters on here who have an agenda.

But sadly I don’t think it’s always as straightforward as contacting your GP. My own GP is incredibly difficult to access right now, even if you’re genuinely unwell, which I’m not. And I know with the female-specific side effects I’ve experienced my older male GP would be very likely to dismiss them as oh so mysterious ‘women’s troubles’ and fob me off. Had I not seen similar stories on here I wouldn’t have been aware of the Yellow Card scheme and probably wouldn’t have bothered to report.

Mumsnet is a place for discussion of real life experiences and anecdotes. It shouldn’t be censored so that no one can talk about their worries or real side effects they have experienced.

Hopefully worries can be engaged with and put in proportion. Lots of people have mild side effects that don’t last long and there is nothing wrong with discussing this if people want to.

I know people ‘should’ only listen to research studies and the vaccine scientists but lots of these threads link to those things anyway which people may not have found otherwise.

If we suppress all this discussion then Mumsnet becomes a propaganda site.

I disagree OP. These are not just concerns taken out of thin area amor from social media. Other countries have paused or age restricted the AZ vaccine. Are these countries misinformed and irrational too? Australia has said no to the Johnson & Johnson vaccine as it is the same type as AZ. So I guess the concern is not necessarily from misinformed people, but from people who are following international news too.

This

Mumsnet is a place for discussion of real life experiences and anecdotes

Yes, and not the place for getting proper informed information. People on here have all sorts of agendas. Better to do some independent research.

You can find the government official vaccine statistics and side effects from this link:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting#annex-1-vaccine-analysis-print

This is AZ from the beginning of Jan to March

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/977006/COVID-19_vaccine_AstraZeneca_analysis_print.pdf

@Ultimatecougar

I don't think it's unreasonable to warn people that the vaccine can make you feel bad afterwards. Them people can schedule it at a time when they don't have responsibilities it would impact. 20-30% of people have side effects after the Astrazenica jab. That's not insignificant.

I felt like I had terrible flu afterwards and I've never felt like that with any other vaccine. It came as a complete surprise. So if for example I had needed to do a long shift at work the following day or drive anywhere or look after a toddler I couldn't have done it. I do think it's fair to warn people so they can organise their time

I agree with this! I'm not especially worried about the "serious" side effects, but the mild effects do seem very common - more so than any other vaccine I'm aware of. From having a sore arm meaning it can't be used, to tiredness, to nausea, to feeling like death. I know they are just your immune system kicking in and not side effects of the vaccine as such, but they could well be debilitating for a couple of days, with no way of telling whether you're likely to be affected or not. And compared to covid, which you may or may not catch, but is highly likely (in youngish, healthyish people) to be a mild disease which you may not even realise you have, these relatively high incidence mild effects from something you are 100% going to be exposed to are something worth taking into account IMO.

So though I'm definitely going to take the vaccine when offered, I'm going to make sure DH and I don't have it on the same day so we can still look after DS comfortably, and that I don't have anything urgent to do over the next couple of days, just in case. If that makes me paranoid and scaremongery, so be it. You can bet if I did become ill with side effects and DS injured himself or something I'd be ripped to shreds for not taking adequate precautions - "you should have known this would happen... Lots of people feel ill afterwards. Why hadn't you got adequate childcare/ childproofing in place? ".

@Remmy123

I don't like the way people are behaving towards those that do not want the vaccine YET. It's disgraceful how those people are being called selfish.

People are wel within their rights to be hesitant about a vaccine that is less than a year old!

They're not only called selfish but stupid and uneducated.

It is perfectly reasonable to be hesitant about a new vaccine and perfectly reasonable to come to MN to read others experiences with that vaccine.

This is a discussion forum and both sides should be able to discuss respectfully without the hesitant side being shouted down and labelled anti-vaxxers or stupid all the time.

People saying they're hesitant as it's a new vaccine should way that up against Covid being a new disease. We don't yet know the long term implications for people who've been infected with Covid virus

While I spent 45 minutes desperately trying to get an appointment this morning (got there in the end) I'm still concerned about blood clots, just as I am on long distance flights (where I wear flight socks, move around frequently and make sure I am well hydrated). I'm mostly pissed off that an alternative to AZ is being offered to under 30's but not to over 30's when over 30's are just as much at risk of blood clots.

I think with a new vaccine, not just this one, it is important to follow up and find out side effects/severity/duration. This doesn’t seem to be happening, a significant number of people I know who have had the vaccine have experienced mild side effects, not one of them has reported them. I would feel much more comfortable if there was a follow up call, or more emphasis on recording this, it makes me uneasy that we don’t have a complete picture. This isn’t just for this year, we are likely to be having the jab for years to come so from a science perspective it’s important to look at all outcomes. Having said that, I see the importance of getting the vaccine and any major effects would be recorded as those people will be seeking help.

It's a good point and if MN had any shame they'd have restricted posts on each topic to a single thread.

But as with all of SM - hysteria makes money.

@whitestarflower
Just to add that I have the flu vaccine every year
Did you realise that the flu jab can cause Gillian barre syndrome in a rare number of cases? Why the lack of posting about that?

I disagree, OP. I've found this forum to be strongly pro vaccination, so much so that for months it was impossible to mention not being sure about having the vaccine for health reasons without being labeled 'anti-vax'. Since the rise in side effects and reports of AZ rarely causing clots, this has eased up slightly. Maybe the balance is being redressed at last.

Luckily, in real life, vaccine uptake is very good.

‘Did you realise that the flu jab can cause Gillian barre syndrome in a rare number of cases? Why the lack of posting about that?’

Flu jabs have been around forever, low risk ratios are pretty well established. Not the case with CV19 jabs yet is it.

I’m not sure what you are complaining about. Bottom line is 19 out of 20 over 50s have had the CV jab regardless of this apparently incessant negativity on MN you are whining about? Do 19 out of 20 of us have a flu jab each year?

If those who are a little more cautious turn out to have legit concerns and there are medium/longer term issues for example, you’ll just have to suck that up with any consequences that come with them. If the jab concerns aren’t legit maybe those ‘refuseniks’ will get a CV jab a little further on down the line when more is known & they feel more comfortable?