Astra-Zenaca clots caused by accidental injection of the vaccine into a vein within the deltoid.

[Cormoran]

In a French newspaper yesterday, there was an article reporting a research paper drawing the hypothesis that the thrombosis events are caused by an abnormal activation of Neutrophil extracellular traps (NET) when vaccine hits a vein instead of muscle tissue.

The paper is in French
ducotedelascience.org/evenements-thrombotiques-apres-le-vaccin-astrazeneca-et-si-cetait-lie-a-une-reponse-immunitaire-discordante/ but you can use google translate to translate it into French. I have done so for the relevant parts and pasted them here
"
One of the hypotheses that may explain the occurrence of thrombosis by abnormal activation of NET, following the vaccine injection, is the accidental injection of the vaccine into a vein within the deltoid. The adenoviruses would then be injected directly into the blood, which would trigger an innate and adaptive immune response, the activation of neutrophils and the release of NET. Then the formation of thrombi would define the severity of the thromboses.
"

"Intravenous passage: a possible hypothesis, according to the literature?

The adenovirus like many other viruses (retroviruses, lentiviruses, AAV) is widely used in research as a vector either to study certain genes or to deliver them to cells, in vitro or in vivo [14]. In the latter case, the injection of the viruses into mouse models has given rise to numerous publications concerning the pharmacokinetics / pharmacodynamics of these viruses depending on the routes of administration. A recent publication takes stock of the immune response induced by intravenous injection of adenovirus in mice: it shows that adenovirus administered by IV disappears very quickly from the bloodstream and is undetectable after 30 minutes [14].
"
"This does not correspond to its elimination but to its trapping . When it comes to large amounts of viral particles, this intravenous administration can be lethal in mice but also in non-human primates [15].

In fact, if the quantity of virus is too large, the different capture mechanisms by the innate immune system can cause hepatic capture and an “inflammatory storm” with cytokine shock, activation of the coagulation cascade, likely to lead to consumer thrombocytopenia, DIC, and multiorgan disease that can endanger or kill mice [14]."

If that were true i would expect it to affect pfizer (though i know it's not adenovirus)

They don't know - might be true might not be. Maybe they should have known more about what would happen before they started injecting it into people.

But that does not explain the bias towards women in the issue.

What I am reading is more about the spike protein and it’s effects.

It is an hypothesis. Why more women? Not a clue. Less muscle?

Old people have less muscle too (much less in many cases) so that doesn't explain the skew towards younger people.

John Campbell covered this a couple of weeks ago based on Danish report

@HSHorror

If that were true i would expect it to affect pfizer (though i know it's not adenovirus)

there have been events with Pfizer, and Moderna, although fewer numbers than AZ we are told, Google US news articles about blood clots and ITP after vaccine. First big report was in Jan, a doctor from Miami

Unlikely to hit a vein in the deltoid muscle, I doubt there is any truth in this.

@time4anothername thank you for the link. I watched it and it makes the issue very plausible. the difference seems to be that the French put the blames more on a excessive immune response when a vein is hit more than just the technique
@Pixxie7 very very unlikely, a 1 in 250.000 chance maybe?

Younger women tend towards less lean arm muscle than men (and more arm fat than men and to some extent older women). So perhaps age and sex related physiology is at the root of it?

I recall Danish scientists proposed that there was an association with pinching the arm mass to inject, rather than pressing flat to inject. Pinching upwards will see a more pronounced effect where there is more fat, less muscle.

Perhaps all of the above makes hitting a vein more likely.

@Cormoran my understanding is that the bias towards women is that younger healthcare workers (nurses) tend to be female and the vaccine was used in young in other countries (whereas HCW in UK mostly received Pfizer). However proportional to vaccines delivered men are also affected.

Thank you for that comment @Apandemicyousay. (love your username by the way )

Given that two cases occurred in the same centre it did make me wonder about injection technique being an issue.

It's usual to draw back rhe syringe slightly when giving an IM injection, to check whether a vein has been hit. If blood is drawn back, it indicates a vein

In the John Campbell video linked further up, he explains that it is not the case with vaccines, and that Denmark now requires to do so

Ah right I didn't know that. A simple precaution, though

Vaccinators here don't draw back, or at least no-one I've seen does, & we weren't taught to.

I posted this a while back. It was certainly more plausible when the cases where confined to the same city (if I recall correctly) but I don’t think so now with how many cases there have been in several countries.

@Cookerhood

Do you know if the UK uses self-aspirating syringes?

Interesting. As a nurse we are repeatedly trained not to pinch the arm when administering an intramuscular injection, the needle needs to go deep, not into subcutaneous fat. I've been amazed watching the news just how many times the administrator does pinch up the skin.

Do you know if the UK uses self-aspirating syringes?
No, just regular syringes.
Interesting. As a nurse we are repeatedly trained not to pinch the arm when administering an intramuscular injection, the needle needs to go deep, not into subcutaneous fat. I've been amazed watching the news just how many times the administrator does pinch up the skin.
I comment on that daily!

Can I ask if this has been emphasized to the newly recruited vaccinators who are volunteering to administer the Covid jabs? - the need to ensure that the vaccine to go into the muscle

Also, does anyone know if nurses are likely to be administering jabs at pharmacies (i.e. Boots) or is it a different type of professional?

Just trying to pre-empt any issues (obviously I'm very thankful to those who have kindly and selflessly volunteered to carry out such mammoth task)

OP - your reference also states the dose required for that effect to take place in mice, placing it at 35,000 times the dose given to humans during vaccination.

Sorry @Doireallyneedaname I missed that one.

That makes sense to me and explains why the UK has proportionately fewer cases - vaccination technique was detailed quite extensively in some of the vaccination training materials sent out to medical professionals who wanted to register to give vaccines.