EMA investigates possible link between AZ and capillary leak syndrome

[Bonifacethethird]

www.standard.co.uk/news/world/capillary-leak-syndrome-astrazeneca-jab-johnson-and-johnson-jab-blood-clots-b928950.htm

What the actual f?

As if the blood clotting issue wasn't enough to worry about. Before anyone says that it probably isn't causal, that's what we were saying about blood clots so recently. And it seems that this is an extremely rare and potentially long term syndrome. Now I feel like a ticking time bomb.

It looks like the article has been taken down.

here is a link to the EMAs meeting highlights.

There are 5 cases being investigated.

@Bonifacethethird

Thanks for that, didn't realise the link had gone down. This one should work, looks like they've put it up again;

www.standard.co.uk/news/world/capillary-leak-syndrome-astrazeneca-jab-johnson-and-johnson-jab-blood-clots-b928950.html

Seriously this has to stop. I work in drug regulation and this is very normal for these sorts of investigations to go on behind the scenes for any medicine. This is what health authorities are for! If there is a risk found appropriate changes are made immediately to safeguard the public. Please trust the experts to do their job, and stop the scaremongering, which is jeopardising our way out of this nightmare.

What has to stop?

Talking about it?

This isn’t a fascist dictatorship, you know.

*Of course by all means do your own research, but please don't share it on a public forum, with an audience who may not understand or interpret the information correctly.

You would be horrified by some of side effects regulators are looking at for the flu and other ‘normal’ vaccines.

@Scottishgirl85

Please don't share a news article on a public forum? Can you hear yourself? People will be able to read about it in the papers and hear it on the radio too.

Is the EMA “scaremongering” by publishing the info on their site for all to see?

Maybe you’d prefer everything all went on behind closed doors, with no transparency and no public discussion about these ongoing safety trials. Bet the drug companies would love that.

@terracotta9 the drug companies are getting us out of this mess on a not for profit basis, please don't slag them off!

So many new / name changed posters on these threads.

Everything is transparent which is great. I actively encourage people to do their own research. But sharing it with a comment like 'what the actual f' is not helpful to people who have anxiety and are questioning the vaccine. These pharmacovigilance investigations are ongoing all the time for all medicines, do you research other medicines you take to the same extent?

Can I ask what you think should happen? Should vaccine development be halted completely? Should AZ be withdrawn and we only use the other vaccines?
I’s be genuinely interested to know what you think the alternative is.

I don't know what the alternative is, but I wish I hadn't had it.

What do you think happens with other new vaccines and medicines @Bonifacethethird?

@ineedaholidaynow

The difference with other medicines and vaccines is that they are not being used across whole populations for an illness which has a very low risk of mortality/complications for most of the population

This ties in with the unique presentation of the clot concerned doesn’t it?

My understanding is that the particular clot that sparked concern was associated with blood thinning. One theory (?) is that the body is trying to compensate for thin blood and over produced platelets which in turn then caused the clots. It’s similar to a phenomenon seen with a blood thinning medication, heparin I believe, and I think treatment protocols have been identified as being the same.

On the plus side these side effects are being identified (and still very rare otherwise they would have come up in large numbers at the trial stage) so clinicians know what they’re looking for and how to treat.

I agree that transparency is great as the general public we need to recognise that we don’t actually understand a lot of what we’re being told. That’s fine, we can’t all be highly educated pharmacologists and scientists, but it’s important to remember that our perspective isn’t informed or balanced.

I keep on with this comparison but it took decades to identify a problem with aspirin and children. If we’d had cause to give every child in the country aspirin at some point in today’s climate it probably would have been banned completely when clearly it has many benefits and doesn’t warrant that kind of over reaction at all.

Scottishgirl85 - I’m afraid I don’t believe drug companies are displaying complete altruism. I read recently that Sarah Gilbert (Oxford Uni/Vaccitech) is due to make £21 million from shares.

People have every right to question the safety of vaccines which, for all intents and purposes, they are being coerced into having.

I’m really saddened that posters want to shut down any alternative view/questioning. It seems really menacing. The complete full-on PR offensive for promoting vaccines and the seemingly imminent vaccine passports have actually really made me question whether I ‘roll up my sleeve’. I hate that saying, along with this whole ‘jab’ terminology.

I’m allowed to feel anxious about what I put in my body. I’m all for doing things for the greater good, however, I only have one life...

@Cornettoninja

This ties in with the unique presentation of the clot concerned doesn’t it?

My understanding is that the particular clot that sparked concern was associated with blood thinning. One theory (?) is that the body is trying to compensate for thin blood and over produced platelets which in turn then caused the clots. It’s similar to a phenomenon seen with a blood thinning medication, heparin I believe, and I think treatment protocols have been identified as being the same.

On the plus side these side effects are being identified (and still very rare otherwise they would have come up in large numbers at the trial stage) so clinicians know what they’re looking for and how to treat.

I agree that transparency is great as the general public we need to recognise that we don’t actually understand a lot of what we’re being told. That’s fine, we can’t all be highly educated pharmacologists and scientists, but it’s important to remember that our perspective isn’t informed or balanced.

I keep on with this comparison but it took decades to identify a problem with aspirin and children. If we’d had cause to give every child in the country aspirin at some point in today’s climate it probably would have been banned completely when clearly it has many benefits and doesn’t warrant that kind of over reaction at all.

Thanks for a detailed reply. It actually has calmed me down a bit. You seem to know of what you speak. Could I ask you, if the vaccine is capable of causing this, would the first episode occur pretty soon after (like within a few months)? What scares me is reading that it's a long term condition - could it crop up down the line?

@Scottishgirl85

Seriously this has to stop. I work in drug regulation and this is very normal for these sorts of investigations to go on behind the scenes for any medicine. This is what health authorities are for! If there is a risk found appropriate changes are made immediately to safeguard the public. Please trust the experts to do their job, and stop the scaremongering, which is jeopardising our way out of this nightmare.

totally this. it is normal for new medicines to only show side effects when it's used in many more patients than in studies. only difference with the covid medicines is that the eyes of the world are on them.

I would take any of the currently authorised vaccines when I'm due to schedule one.

I've asked for this thread to be deleted because I don't want my own worry to make others panic. I really am looking for reassurance and I don't get anything out of making people worry. If anyone wants to start another thread with just the article and no accompanying "what the actual F" then please go ahead so this can be discussed.

I suppose one way of looking at it is we are all potential ticking time bombs on a daily basis and there is no point stressing about what might happen until it actually does. In the last 2 weeks my sister in law has had an emergency mastectomy, one of my brother's had been diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease and last night my dad's sister had a heart attack. None of them w were expecting any of that. My older brother died of a brain tumor a year ago, he had driven up the M1 on business the day before and next day had fallen off his bike, had a brain scan and there it was. I don't say this to scare you but just to make the point that anything can happen any time..... we just need to get on with our lives and stop worrying about stuff.

@Bonifacethethird I’m not qualified at all to answer that, I’m just lucky to have a lot of HCP’s in my social circle who are happy to let me join in with their (very spirited) discussions.

My understanding of vaccines is that side effects are almost guaranteed not to cause side effects months or years down the line simply due to how they are designed to work. I don’t want to fear monger but in the interest of balance that doesn’t discount things to at can take a long time to be noticed so if a vaccine caused your hair colour to change it might not be picked up at the time and only noticed much later on. The side effects we’re hearing about at the moment are all going to happen within days/weeks of the vaccine.

@vdbfamily

I suppose one way of looking at it is we are all potential ticking time bombs on a daily basis and there is no point stressing about what might happen until it actually does. In the last 2 weeks my sister in law has had an emergency mastectomy, one of my brother's had been diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease and last night my dad's sister had a heart attack. None of them w were expecting any of that. My older brother died of a brain tumor a year ago, he had driven up the M1 on business the day before and next day had fallen off his bike, had a brain scan and there it was. I don't say this to scare you but just to make the point that anything can happen any time..... we just need to get on with our lives and stop worrying about stuff.

Thank you. You're right about that. I will try to keep it in perspective. I guess it's just so worrying to me because I was so conflicted about getting the vaccine due to concern about unforseen side effects. And now this coming out.

I don't blame the op for freaking out. But, as someone who has has one jab, who is 37, with no particularly serious underlying conditions, I'm still happy to 'risk' the second jab. I also have a lot of HCPs in my immediate family, and the stories one of them (junior doc) has told me about covid deaths in relative young people worry me MUCH more than the risk of blood clot or this new syndrome.

Interesting discussion OP.

Would this now mean we should not take aspirin before/after the vaccinations?