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Original poster

Vaccine passports aren't possible in practice if

76 replies

paxman · 09/04/2021 15:33

there is no central record of all of the people who have been vaccinated and when they received them.
DH, for example, had his first dose but used the central booking system so he has an appointment card but there is no record on his NHS account that he accesses using the App. Therefore I don't think his GP knows he has been vaccinated.
MIL had hers but was called by the GP and they booked her in so the GP has a record that it was booked. I don't know if the attendance list from the vaccination centre is passed back to the GP.

I can't seem to understand where the data on actual vaccinations people have had is. Therefore I can't understand how any vaccination passport can actually work as there is no central place to check these details?

OP posts:
Gwenhwyfar · 09/04/2021 16:28

"Not really, not when evidence of negative test ŵill also count, as will a period after a confirmed infection."

Well, people would have to pay for those tests though wouldn't they? Whereas the others got vaccinated for free.
Even if you get the test for free, it's a half day off work to go to the test centre unless you can get a free test and the nose test is incredibly uncomfortable for some of us.
No way is it fair for the old people to just be able to go everywhere and the others having to go through all that just to go out.

MaxNormal · 09/04/2021 16:30

Try getting in to some countries without proof of a yellow fever vaccine

Hardly very many of them, and not really comparable to going shopping or for a meal.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 09/04/2021 16:35

Well before long everything will be facial recognition and biometric data drive, so we'll all be safe as houses won't we?

Really looking forward to the nudge into social credit scoring.....Hmm

Cornettoninja · 09/04/2021 16:40

@Terracotta9

Try getting in to some countries without proof of a yellow fever vaccine.

But that’s the point, I can quite happily live my life without ever travelling to a country that requires a yellow fever vaccine.

That’s a lot different from requiring a vaccine in order to go to a restaurant or a clothing shop in my own country.

Yes, haven’t we been incredibly lucky to live in a country for such a long time that didn’t have a day to day risk of a serious communicable disease?

Things have changed. Life will return to a semblance of normal but it’s completely unrealistic to expect there to be no mark left by the events of the last twelve months.

Fwiw I don’t particularly support vaccine passports but I can see the logic of why certain venues/providers may feel they want to be able to implement them, not least as a layer of protection for their employees (not an altruistic aim but concerns over H&S liabilities). I don’t think this country is likely to make it work; we don’t have a great track record with anything comparable and I’m sure I read that a comparable scheme in Israel is already almost defunct because it just isn’t necessary given their results from widespread vaccinations.

Original poster
paxman · 09/04/2021 16:42

back to the practical bit-
I don't think we are in a position to be given little cards with proof of vaccination to enable travel.
I don't have confidence with the government to have planned this- printed and sending cards out- or indeed to have planned how they gather this proof.
I don't think I will be confident in travelling to places or cruises that require vaccinations as there is no way to actually prove you've had them.

OP posts:
Canigooutyet · 09/04/2021 16:44

Those who have had the vaccine and get the mythical passport will also need to be tested before they enter a club or whatever. Remember the vaccine for some only reduces the symptoms assuming they have any symptoms

If you've had CV tests resumes after 90 days

www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2020/11/C0913-lateral-flow-antien-test-trust-faqs-v3-jan-2021.pdf

And what about the false positives?

btwwhichonespink · 09/04/2021 16:49

It is being added to the Summary Care record so your GP will have access to it, as will other designated users.

Original poster
paxman · 09/04/2021 16:52

So how will people prove a negative result to others? You've basically got to trust people thrusting their phone screen at you to show 'negative'.
Or holding out a LFT cartridge to show you the one line...

I just think its impractical, open to fraud and not possible for May!

OP posts:
btwwhichonespink · 09/04/2021 16:57

They are planning it for the 21st June. The free LFTs will be not be allowed for the 'negative test' part. It will have to be a negative PCR. A positive PCR gets you a six-month pass so if you do have the passport, hope for a false positive if you can cope with the needless isolation period.

We still don;t know much about what they have planned for the 'immunity without vaccine' 3rd pillar.

Aposterhasnoname · 09/04/2021 16:58

@AnyFucker

Download the nhs app. Your vaccination record is on there.
Not necessarily, depends on your drs surgery. Mine isn’t.
georgepattinson · 09/04/2021 16:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Canigooutyet · 09/04/2021 16:59

How do you trust those around you that haven't got any other airborne illness?
How to you trust those around haven't got whooping cough, flu or a million other nasties?
How do you get those without a smart phone to show they've had the vaccine?
How do you trust yourself to be around others who cannot have the vaccine?

You cannot. You can however educate yourself to be safe and protect yourself just like those with underlying illnesses have done so for a long time

MaxNormal · 09/04/2021 17:01

Yes, haven’t we been incredibly lucky to live in a country for such a long time that didn’t have a day to day risk of a serious communicable disease?

We still don't. Fatality rate for yellow fever is circa 30%.

Soontobe60 · 09/04/2021 17:02

@Terracotta9

Why? Do you have a passport? Driving license? NHS card?

Lots of people don’t have a passport or driving license and function perfectly well in society. NHS number is only used when accessing NHS services and its function is containerised.

Very different from having to carry proof of a medical intervention or face being shut out of anything that’s not a supermarket or pharmacy.

But if you wished to travel abroad or drive a car would you complain that having to have a passport of driving license is intrusive? Or would you just get one? I just don’t get why people would be up in arms about having a card that showed you’d got a vaccination.
btwwhichonespink · 09/04/2021 17:02

Yes re the Yellow Fever vaccine. I'm not a fan of unecessary medication, prophylactic or otherwise. I would probably just not visit a country that required the YF vaccine or had a high incidence of yellow fever cases.

It's not a common disease, it's not always serious if you get it and the vaccine itself can be pretty nasty. So it's not the same thing at all.

Soontobe60 · 09/04/2021 17:04

@Terracotta9

Try getting in to some countries without proof of a yellow fever vaccine.

But that’s the point, I can quite happily live my life without ever travelling to a country that requires a yellow fever vaccine.

That’s a lot different from requiring a vaccine in order to go to a restaurant or a clothing shop in my own country.

Going to a restaurant isn’t essential. I’ve not been in a clothing shop for over a year now, and yet I’ve managed to buy myself plenty of clothes online!
MaxNormal · 09/04/2021 17:04

Should have said, symptomatic fatality rate for yellow fever.
And despite that, no vaccine passports to visits shops or bars in countries where it occurs.

MaxNormal · 09/04/2021 17:05

Going to a restaurant isn’t essential. I’ve not been in a clothing shop for over a year now, and yet I’ve managed to buy myself plenty of clothes online!

Good for you. I think people are allowed to want a bit more than the bare essentials though.

btwwhichonespink · 09/04/2021 17:06

@Soontobe60 because some of us wont be having the vaccination and shouldn't be banned from the pub or TK maxx as a result! It's not rocket science.

It really isn't the same thing as expecting to drive without a license or enter a country without a passport. There is no comparison.

This is about compelling people to take new experimental vaccines to get their freedom back. Why do you think it is the same thing?

btwwhichonespink · 09/04/2021 17:07

@Soontobe60 what has being 'essential' got to do with it?

FlyLight · 09/04/2021 17:11

Has anyone actually said it would have to be a pcr test? So in order to go to the pub or a clothes shop I'd need to plan a week in advance to take time off work to go and get a test and then wait the 2/3 days for the result? This would be truly insane if it was the case!

Cornettoninja · 09/04/2021 17:16

@MaxNormal

Yes, haven’t we been incredibly lucky to live in a country for such a long time that didn’t have a day to day risk of a serious communicable disease?

We still don't. Fatality rate for yellow fever is circa 30%.

Fatalities aren’t the only measure of ‘serious’ though are they? Given the impact covid has had I think it can come under the heading of serious even with a comparably low fatality rate.

But yes, it isn’t even close to the most fatal diseases - fuck knows how we’d cope with a pandemic of one of those given how society has reacted to this one.

Canigooutyet · 09/04/2021 17:17

It would have to be those quick tests taken on the day just before you were allowed in.
Like any test, results only count up to the time the test happened.

.

Abraxan · 09/04/2021 17:19

@paxman

there is no central record of all of the people who have been vaccinated and when they received them. DH, for example, had his first dose but used the central booking system so he has an appointment card but there is no record on his NHS account that he accesses using the App. Therefore I don't think his GP knows he has been vaccinated. MIL had hers but was called by the GP and they booked her in so the GP has a record that it was booked. I don't know if the attendance list from the vaccination centre is passed back to the GP.

I can't seem to understand where the data on actual vaccinations people have had is. Therefore I can't understand how any vaccination passport can actually work as there is no central place to check these details?

I was called by the gp and had my first vaccine. Dh called into a local hub and had his without an appointment. A friend booked his through the national website and had his done at the big hub.

For all of us our NHS record has been updated. We have checked this by downloading the NHS app. It comes under Medication - Acute.

So there must be a central system recording it all.

poppycat10 · 09/04/2021 17:25

@Hairwizard

Theres no place for it anyway. Shouldnt even be a discussion on them.
I agree, but it looks like other countries are buying into the madness too.