The outcome of the government's terrible messaging re Xmas mixing.

[dangermouselovespeanutbutter]

I read this article this morning. It's really sad. I was so angry at the government's approach to Xmas. Indoor mixing was always going to be a huge risk. There was no way to make it safe. BoJo flipped and flopped anc just confused people.
Unfortunately there are lots of people out there, like the family in this article, who take the view that if the government say it's safe then it must be safe.
It's hard to understand how a family could go from shielding to mixing with several households in one fell swoop. But I do believe that they thought it would be ok because they'd been told that it would be (and it's interesting that his wife said she missed the updates. Not everyone reads / watches the news each day).
So so sad.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/06/james-mcallister-was-a-much-loved-family-man-did-the-christmas-mixing-confusion-cause-his-death?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

It's not personal responsibility that I am harping on about. I don't "blame" this family for their own death but personal freedom means they took a risk and it ended in tragedy. That's sad but it's not the fault of Government for giving them that choice. I never thought i would have much in common with the Tory back bench but it alarms me how many people seem perfectly happy to live in an authoritarian regime. By all means blame Boris for not taking decisive action which may have stemmed this tide much earlier, but don't say everyone needs protecting from themselves. The restrictions are about ensuring everyone does their part to keep the R rate down, not to stop grown adults taking risks with their own lives. In many aspects of life that's a perfectly rational and necessary thing to do. And I any case this obsession with "safety" as 8f it's an absolute concept is new. It's not the only metric by which to judge if something's worthwhile.

I saw my mum at Christmas but she lives alone, we work from home and ds's college had finished a week early to do online lessons.

So it was a calculated risk. If DM had been vulnerable or one of us was a teacher or a nurse, we would have probably not seen her.

I know other people who sorted out a gazebo outside - it was very mild on Christmas Day.

People do need to take responsibility for themselves and not expecting the not-very-competent government to tell you what to do (anyway they did advise not mixing indoors at all, and banned it in tiers 3 and 4).

I didn’t see that message 🤷🏻‍♀️

I was kind of busy with work etc and had no time for checking

That argument doesn't hold water. If you were too busy how would you have been aware of the Christmas relaxation in the first place?

And no one is too busy to not comprehend that a virus doesn't take a day off for Christmas. It's all too easy to criticise now, if the govt had said no mixing at Christmas there would have been uproar and people would have done it anyway.

Was it ever suggested that it was ok for people who were shielding to mix for Christmas? We had two local households together for Christmas Day. We’d already decided (pre any of the announcements) to not mix with other members of the family who were more vulnerable or who would be having to travel. The government messaging on this was rubbish but there has to be an element of individual decision making and responsibility involved.

I think some people were stupid and took foolish decisions but, quite frankly, they were encouraged to by this government.

This. They're all at fault. The government is negligent but this family was stupid.

That’s sad. However, We couldn’t mix at Xmas where we live and I didn’t allow my teens to see their friends once we went into tier 4 I think it was. We went from 2-4 in about 3 days!!
I think we all need to take some personal responsibility for our health regarding Covid - if rates are so high then don’t mix!
I’ve pretty much stuck to it, I know my older teens haven’t completely stuck to the rules but the numbers are low, dh and I have been vaccinated things are t quite as dire now. If they want to ask me what they should do lI will give my answer.

It’s sad he died so have very very many other people and plenty of bereaved families didn’t make the rules up as it suited them then blame the government.

And wtf has happened to the guardian? Most of that article reads like something out of Take a Break, what utter schmaltz and nauseating tripe.

I’d also rather not know he was 29 and recently split from his ex when he picked a 16 year old up in a bar. Or that he got angry about wet towels or was in love with a dog.

Ultimately we are responsible for our choices, the Government were in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
We all knew there were risks, and some of us choose to stay isolated and some took the risk..

Just because someone says you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

Sorry OP, but while I totally despair at the inept handling of the outbreak last year, in particular the gung-ho attitude towards both ending the first lockdown, ending shielding and christmas, it was pretty clear, to anyone who HAD previously been shielding that Christmas mixing would be unsafe.

An analogy would be Boris announcing it's OK to put your hand in the fire... if you do so and get burned, is it his fault? Nope, it's yours because it's quite clear he was talking out of his arse.... but you do have to wonder at all the doofuses who are happy with a clown being in charge of the UK.

Very sad story but nobody said that Xmas mixing was safe. Also didn't it change to you could see one other family for Xmas day only? I'm sure it was.

@Waxonwaxoff0

It's very sad, but people need to take personal responsibility sometimes. You can't just blame the government for everything. I certainly don't blindly follow everything Boris says.

This completely

Everyone knew the risks, many things are legal but can have had bad outcomes.

The message wasn’t ever given that it was safe to mix just that it was allowed for one day but there was still a caution with it. The virus cases were very high and the news and web full of updates and stats.

How on earth is this mans death the responsibility of the government?

They made the choice to mix even though they were shielding.

Regardless of what the 'rules' were at the time, they made that decision.

Terribly sad for them, but they had already shortened the days we were supposed to mix i think it was from 5?? to just Christmas day. If you were shielding why weren't you keeping an eye on the news or the numbers?

When someone dies, especially before their time, it's natural to feel anger and want to blame someone or something. Sometimes, it is just one of those things. Sad but it isn't the governments fault in this instance.

Another one very surprised that’s a Guardian story!

Very sad but he was incredibly vulnerable. I don’t believe she thought it was ok according to guidelines - I think they decided to take a risk and paid the ultimate price. Desperately sad .

@Beakind82

Very sad story but nobody said that Xmas mixing was safe. Also didn't it change to you could see one other family for Xmas day only? I'm sure it was.

Agree, the government said you could, because there was so much pressure to and it would have been very sad for so many families not to, but let’s be completely honest, the risks were stressed so so many times, no one was standing up saying “get in there, mix, have fun, it’s safe! “

It is a very sad story and I think the Government's handling of Christmas was awful - it spiralled very quickly out of control.

But in this instance two things come out

1. they had no idea the rules had changed on the 19th - so met on the 23rd
2. James was ill by the 23rd and the Mum was in hospital with pneumonia by the 26th the timeline means that surely someone had symptoms when they met up

It was a very weird article

Also if you read the article, they broke the rules, they were tier three and were allowed to mix on Xmas day only, they went on the 23 rd and they said he was ill on Xmas morning, which means the over whelming odds are he had it before he went, and took it with him, and caught it some where else.

They are saying they didn’t know the rules so didn’t know they were breaking them, but it was everywhere, absolutely everywhere. I am not sure I believe not one of them knew.

A prime example for me is I didn't go to shops like B and M or the range despite being open in January when our case numbers were 700/100k.

B and M bargains sells essential stuff like food, groceries, cleaning products, toiletries and san pro. It also sells some non essential stuff . Just like a supermarket.
But half of MN seem to hold B and M responsible for spreading covid...

@loveheartss

How on earth is this mans death the responsibility of the government?

They made the choice to mix even though they were shielding.

Regardless of what the 'rules' were at the time, they made that decision.

Terribly sad for them, but they had already shortened the days we were supposed to mix i think it was from 5?? to just Christmas day. If you were shielding why weren't you keeping an eye on the news or the numbers?

When someone dies, especially before their time, it's natural to feel anger and want to blame someone or something. Sometimes, it is just one of those things. Sad but it isn't the governments fault in this instance.

They made the choice to mix even though they were shielding.

Not disagreeing with you about responsibility, but the government announced shielding ended on 1st August 2020 and it wasn't put back until 22nd December.

When shielding ended, those who HAD shielded were actively encouraged by the government to go back to work etc - in many cases forced to.

@ouchmyfeet

I think some people were stupid and took foolish decisions but, quite frankly, they were encouraged to by this government.

This. They're all at fault. The government is negligent but this family was stupid.

No one was encouraged.

They said 5 days of mixing was allowed. They made it clear people needed to remember about the transmissibility of the virus.

They then said due to numbers they could only allow 1 day. They put regions into tier 4 and banned mixing.

They even said which areas would go into tier 4 on Boxing Day.

So people knew the risks. Some decided to take them and others didn't.

We took it. We knew risks. Isolated beforehand.

We made the decision because my mum has terminal cancer and it's a strong possibility that was her last

She was adamant she wanted to take the risk as dying anyway. We went but me and those attending were anxious about it - hence isolating beforehand - to limit risks.

More Government bashing. Where's the personal responsibility?
BJ is a tit, and the Government has made so many bodges. But the tone of this article is ridiculous.

they went on the 23 rd and they said he was ill on Xmas morning, which means the over whelming odds are he had it before he went, and took it with him, and caught it some where else.

Yes the whole article is a bit strange and reads like a grieving family reaching around for someone to blame, then shoehorning their case into a criticism of the government (who can be blamed for enough as it is already without needing to make stuff up).

It is very sad that this man died, particularly as they had been so careful all year. However, anyone remember the incessant bleating which went on before Christmas - people saying they didn't care what the Government said, they were going to see family, etc.? Unfortunately, for this family, this was the result. If people choose to disregard the advice, then they can't blame the Government when things go wrong.

Not disagreeing with you about responsibility, but the government announced shielding ended on 1st August 2020 and it wasn't put back until 22nd December

But they went on thr 23rd.