The outcome of the government's terrible messaging re Xmas mixing.

[dangermouselovespeanutbutter]

I read this article this morning. It's really sad. I was so angry at the government's approach to Xmas. Indoor mixing was always going to be a huge risk. There was no way to make it safe. BoJo flipped and flopped anc just confused people.
Unfortunately there are lots of people out there, like the family in this article, who take the view that if the government say it's safe then it must be safe.
It's hard to understand how a family could go from shielding to mixing with several households in one fell swoop. But I do believe that they thought it would be ok because they'd been told that it would be (and it's interesting that his wife said she missed the updates. Not everyone reads / watches the news each day).
So so sad.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/06/james-mcallister-was-a-much-loved-family-man-did-the-christmas-mixing-confusion-cause-his-death?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

@Kimye4eva

It is beholden on the government to communicate clearly, consistently and with enough force to help people who struggle with personal analysis to make good decisions. Did the government do that at Christmas? No it was a shit show

It’s not the government’s fault that apparently no one in this family watched the news or read any newspapers or news updates (or quite honestly looked at social media) for a week. Perhaps I can believe that one person hadn’t heard about the Christmas backtrack, but the whole family? Not a chance.

I agree with this. With children the age theirs are surely one of the two older ones would have seen or heard the news updates.

People need to take some responsibility for themselves. The guidance and the risks were very very clear. They chose to take the risk.

Covid case numbers were bonkers high in December. Whitty and others were urging people not to mix. Looking at case figures there was no way I was mixing regardless of what Boris said.

If it was “legal” now I’d happily do it as numbers are so much lower. But not then.

I do mainly think that people need to take responsibility for their own decisions, they must have realised it was risky. But sadly I suppose some people don’t have that capability, they will blindly think if
Boris has said we can do it then it must be ok.

@Buzzinwithbez

It's a long drawn out article set for maximum emotional impact and maximum criticism of the govt, so I struggled to figure out the timeline but I'm not sure the timeline fits the incubation period.

They visited her mum on 23rd December and a day and a half later he was too ill to come out for Christmas Day. That fast!
I think the possibility is that he contracted it elsewhere.

Anyway, regardless. They went to see her mum and they were desperately unlucky. I can understand that with hindsight they wish theyd made different choices, but i dont think guilt and blame is helpful.

Yes, it's impossible that he picked it up on the 23rd and by the 25th was too ill to get out of bed

It's very sad, but people need to take personal responsibility sometimes. You can't just blame the government for everything. I certainly don't blindly follow everything Boris says.

Hmm, some unhelpful emotive/victim-blaming hyperbole in this comment ('can't just blame' and 'blindly follow').

I don't just blame the government and I certainly don't blindly follow anything proven liar Johnson says.

BUT I rightly believe the country should have had better leadership and tens of thousands of deaths can be attributed to poor government decisions and messaging.

UK has been very badly let down, we have a corrupt and lazy government, and the public have paid the price.

The article is sad and I feel for the family. But ultimately... family broke covid rules....family gets covid....CEV family member dies. Heartbreaking - yes. Happened a lot over the last year - I’m sure. Government fault - they’re not perfect but you can’t blame them for everything. I know a few people who have had covid, either HCP or people who haven’t followed the rules at all. Like others have said it’s about a balance of risk. Going forward as things open up I’d be keeping a close eye on local numbers and acting accordingly if I or a family member was CEV. It’s not fair and it’s awful and life limiting but it’s what needs to be done while covid is still prevalent.

So, the family somehow knew that mixing at christmas was initially allowed - via the news/internet/social media presumably. But then suddenly stopped looking at these sources of information before Christmas?

I saw a news report a few weeks ago about the family of a man who had attended the Liverpool v Real Madrid match in March 2020 and who sadly contracted covid shortly after and passed away. Again, the family were blaming the government saying they should have cancelled the match (yes they probably should) but because they didn't, his dad assumed it was safe to attend so he did. Bearing in mind this was just when things were really escalating in the UK, I certainly would have thought twice about going to a packed football stadium regardless but, again, where is the personal responsibility/risk assessment?

The government handled Christmas badly, and its really sad that this family have lost their husband / father. But I don't believe for a single second that nobody in that family - at least 6 adults in 3 households, if you include the adult children - had picked up on the news between 19th and 23rd December.

@Waxonwaxoff0

It's very sad, but people need to take personal responsibility sometimes. You can't just blame the government for everything. I certainly don't blindly follow everything Boris says.

The government has access to information we don’t. So actually I can see why people did follow the government’s advice. To suggest otherwise is to let this government off the hook.

Personal responsibility is about not getting drunk/ buying a pair of shoes you can't afford. It's not about dealing with a pandemic.

Drinking is legal but if I have such a low tolerance that even a glass of wine gives me a two day hangover, or I’m on medications that I shouldn’t mix with alcohol, I don’t do it.

Mixing was legal but if they were shielding due to risk factors that would make them more vulnerable to Covid, they could’ve applied some common sense and not mixed.

We’re humans, not sheep. We can put our brains to use because pandemic or not, what’s legal is not always right or advisable for certain individuals.

I’m dismayed at the people letting the government off the hook on this one and talking about “personal responsibility” etc.

The government has absolutely and utterly cocked up the handling of covid and it’s no surprise that people have flouted the rules - because the government themselves and their advisers have openly done the same. It creates a drip drip that it’s ok to mix at Christmas, that it’s ok to travel to test your eyesight etc. This is a classic example of do what I say not what I do.

If our government had been very clear and strong on its covid messaging, then yes let’s blame individuals. But it hasn’t.

And its messaging is not easy to find. I’ve been stunned actually at how hard it has been to wade through the guidance because I don’t watch the press briefings, I don’t trust reading the summaries in newspaper websites, so prefer to find the government guidance itself.

They could have done more to get the guidance out there but haven’t. Where are the leaflets, the info booklets - not everyone has internet access and it’s a known issue for sections of the population.
Why? Because it keeps bloody changing.

When will people wake up and see how much our government has let us down

The government has access to information we don’t. So actually I can see why people did follow the government’s advice. To suggest otherwise is to let this government off the hook.

I don't understand this thinking at all. Covid isn't going anywhere. Unless the govt had info that it has completely disappeared why would we expect to never catch it!

We took sensible plans and mixed with my sister (single parent) her children are in the same bubbles at school as my children. And my parents, they’re in their early 60’s and live very local so had mixed when them when allowed. I later after Christmas Day found out sister had a friend from another part of the country to stay over in her bed Christmas Eve. I was so angry that we had agreed on what we were doing and we were put at extra risk without our knowledge.

Obviously it’s very sad but really people need to take responsibility. About 6 days before Christmas Chris Whitty said at a briefing just because something is legal doesn’t mean you should do it, and he gave the example of driving at 70 in icy roads.

@beginningoftheend

It's very sad, but people need to take personal responsibility sometimes. You can't just blame the government for everything. I certainly don't blindly follow everything Boris says.

Hmm, some unhelpful emotive/victim-blaming hyperbole in this comment ('can't just blame' and 'blindly follow').

I don't just blame the government and I certainly don't blindly follow anything proven liar Johnson says.

BUT I rightly believe the country should have had better leadership and tens of thousands of deaths can be attributed to poor government decisions and messaging.

UK has been very badly let down, we have a corrupt and lazy government, and the public have paid the price.

This isn't victim blaming. People made decisions, no one forced them to.

I don't understand this thinking at all. Covid isn't going anywhere. Unless the govt had info that it has completely disappeared why would we expect to never catch it!

I would suggest that this is a very narrow minded view then. It’s a conversation I have a lot with my DH - and he takes a similar view as yours. He’s naturally not very empathetic to be honest.

First of all - I didn’t mix at Christmas, I’ve barely done any of the things permitted when the rules were relaxed - because I don’t trust the government at all.

However, and I think it’s important to appreciate this, some people do trust the government and this is why we end up with people mixing etc at Christmas.

I don’t think it’s right to blame these people. I think it’s right to hold the government to account.

Personal responsibility is a nice line trotted out, especially by government, to let themselves off the hook.

Does it mean that I think people shouldn’t be responsible? No. It means I think that this government needs to be more responsible because it has been entrusted with the country’s population and has fucked up on a grand scale.

@C4tintherug

I don’t believe that she didn’t know about the rules for Xmas. The whole country was sat with bated breath waiting to find out. Obviously it’s incredibly tragic she lost her husband and she has my every sympathy but don’t pretend the rules weren’t clear. They were.

This 👆
In a nutshell

@Pinotwoman82

Obviously it’s very sad but really people need to take responsibility. About 6 days before Christmas Chris Whitty said at a briefing just because something is legal doesn’t mean you should do it, and he gave the example of driving at 70 in icy roads.

I didn’t see that message 🤷🏻‍♀️

I was kind of busy with work etc and had no time for checking.

Also some sections of the media have and continue to undermine the medical experts and only highlight what the prime minister says.

The example of what the OP has posted illustrates why this government shouldn’t be in charge.

It is v sad but come on... just because boris said we can.. we all know surely it wasn't safe!!

The advice to CEV was also to mix the minimum extent, from DoH

"CEV people are reminded to consider very carefully any plans for a Christmas Bubble over the festive period. Unfortunately you remain extremely vulnerable to this virus and the safest options is not to form a Christmas bubble and avoid attending shops, pharmacies and hospitality settings unless absolutely necessary"

It was never a green light 'OK to do this'

I have a CEV person in the household, and my DMum is also CEV. We were wondering about a one day Christmas visit, but as the limits of the bubbling for the 'normal' population narrowed, we called it off. (I've just seen her, for the first time since last autumn - good job she has a nice garden, wouid have been too cold for her outside at Xmas though)

It really is shit being CEV. But IMO, we were always told that Christmas mixing was inadvisable. It was never outright banned though.

So I suppose we could have been definitely excluded all along. Even though I don't remember the messaging being unclear. And I do agree that everyone knew there was going to be a last minute update - so even if one person in the group missed it, it's hard to believe they all did.

This is the human face of what 'Christmas mixing will lead to deaths' looks like. Poor family

Whilst I have sympathy with the family, I honestly cannot believe that they had no idea about the numbers going up Xmas plans changing - it was all over the news & was all anyone talked about.
They have to take some personal responsibility for their actions especially given that they had been shielding all year - Covid didn't go away just because it was Christmas!
My area moved into Tier 4 when everyone I know stayed in Tier 2. It meant I spent Xmas alone!

@Iggly

I’m dismayed at the people letting the government off the hook on this one and talking about “personal responsibility” etc.

The government has absolutely and utterly cocked up the handling of covid and it’s no surprise that people have flouted the rules - because the government themselves and their advisers have openly done the same. It creates a drip drip that it’s ok to mix at Christmas, that it’s ok to travel to test your eyesight etc. This is a classic example of do what I say not what I do.

If our government had been very clear and strong on its covid messaging, then yes let’s blame individuals. But it hasn’t.

And its messaging is not easy to find. I’ve been stunned actually at how hard it has been to wade through the guidance because I don’t watch the press briefings, I don’t trust reading the summaries in newspaper websites, so prefer to find the government guidance itself.

They could have done more to get the guidance out there but haven’t. Where are the leaflets, the info booklets - not everyone has internet access and it’s a known issue for sections of the population.
Why? Because it keeps bloody changing.

When will people wake up and see how much our government has let us down

Very important for Conservative (capital C) supporters to put it onto individuals, plus that is the conservative (small c) mindset anyway.

The 'personal responsibility' line is a political position.

@Remmy123

It is v sad but come on... just because boris said we can.. we all know surely it wasn't safe!!

Boris has said the vaccine is safe.

But..... look what’s happening with the AZ vaccine?

I’m not an anti vaxxer and take everyone going however I have to say, the latest on the AZ has shook me.

What about the lateral flow tests? Boris and others have said they’ll help open things up but they’re incredibly shit at picking up positive covid tests.

Some people will believe the Prime Minister because, in some way, it reassures them even if the evidence says otherwise.

This is such a bizarre attitude to take. I'm no Boris fan and was livid over the Christmas flip flopping but we can't have "there's been a Covid death, it's the Government's fault for not banning mixing". That way madness lies. Well never be free to take a calculated risk with our own safety ever again

The government has access to information we don’t. So actually I can see why people did follow the government’s advice. To suggest otherwise is to let this government off the hook

Firstly, this family did not follow government “advice”, as you put it. And secondly, they did not advise people to go out and mix at Christmas. They said it was permitted. There were actually numerous press briefings, interviews, etc. where the governments medical advisors said they recommended being cautious and that if people mixed at Christmas rates would go up.