Meeting indoors

[Dailywalk]

Was due to meet friends outside this Thursday evening. The weather is freezing though so the plans are changing and friend just suggested we meet indoors. I’m the only one of the 5 of us who seems to be anxious about this. I’ve had Covid and they’ve had their vaccine but if we were able to meet indoors safely then why would the advice be not to until next month? I’m suddenly feeling really anxious about the whole thing and considering just staying at home. What would you do?

No I wouldn’t go. It’s not in the spirit of lock down. So many people have sacrificed so much to get us to this point. Its a terrible example to set children too who have sacrificed the most. I wouldn’t fancy the risk of a fine either.

There is no such thing as 'safe' in this context. You can't be 100% safe - from covid, or from vaccine side effects, or from anything. This is just about what level of risk people are happy to accept as the price of living their life. The risk of a meet-up of fully vaccinated people is tiny, whereas the price of avoiding these meet-ups is (for me) now too high. Everyone draws the line somewhere different.

@Brainfogisreal

Well I've worked in a room with numerous people and no social distancing throughout the entire pandemic so it wouldn't bother me. Funny how it's safe to be in the same room as colleagues but not friends

Yes exactly

[quote joanneg36]@Figgygal I wouldn't want to speak for anyone else on the thread, but I would imagine most of them think, as I do, that yes we do have a collective responsibility to others, but that there are limits to that. I would imagine if the government told you that you couldn't hug your own partner or children (if you have them) that's a rule you would think was a step too far. Well, that is how I now feel about seeing vaccinated close family and friends. The risk is not zero, but it's tiny and the risk is much higher that my elderly relatives will die of something non-covid related in the next couple of months without my having seen them. So I don't think I'm an expert on infectious diseases, but I do think I'm an expert in how I'd feel if my mum died of a heart attack before 17 May when I'm legally allowed to go round to her house.[/quote]
Here here.

@Figgygal

Jesus wept why do people think think the guidance doesn’t apply to them just because theyre bored we’re all bored of it but everyone just saying fuck it and doing their own thing isn’t going to help. Do people not think we all have a collective responsibility to try minimise risk to others or even ourselves anymore?

No I’d not be going op and I’m just 40 and no underlying health issues but I accept I don’t know Better than experts in infectious diseases like some of the people on here

I have done "collective responsibility" since 17th March 2020, and you can now take "collective responsibility" and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. And actually, sorry to burst your bubble (no pun intended) but I actually do know a fucking lot about infectious diseases. I'm quite happy to accept that you don't though.

Other than to take my dog out for exercise, on my own and seeing nobody, I have not set foot outside my house since 23rd December 2020. Prior to that I have been in an area that has been in lockdown for almost the entire year - I have been nowhere and seen nobody in more more than 12 months, with the exception of meeting a friend outside twice last summer, and going to get my vaccine jabs. My family are not in the UK. Most of my friends are scattered around the UK and the world. I have literally been on my own. So you can take your self-righteous indignation and shove it. It would be a bloody miracle akin to the virgin birth if I have the virus; and since the friend that I went to see is in the same boat as me, the same applies.

You may be satisfied to hole up in your house forever. I am not. Get over it.

@Lalliella yes the vaccine is less than 100% effective - what changes on 17th May?

It’s up to you as to your personal view on rule breaking by now. Cases are low and if the people you are mixing with are vaccinated then let’s be honest it’s such a negligible risk. If you don’t feel comfortable breaking the rules until the strike of midnight on the 17th May when it all miraculously becomes safe again then don’t go.

Many people have reached their limits now and are making their own personal risk assessment. There’s been a real shift I think since Easter whether people like it or not.

I would. What difference do you really think a month makes? Why is it any more safer to meet indoors on May 17th?

0.27% of the community population have covid at present, per the ONS on 1 April.

20% chance of an infected person passing it to someone else in a household setting.
Chance of vaccine not preventing you catching it say 20% (in reality they are more effective than this, but I can’t be bothered to look it up and the OP’s protection is from previous infection so may be different.)

= 0.01% chance of catching covid, at the most. Reality will be lower because the vaccinated friends are less likely to transmit it to anyone else even if they were carrying it (which is unlikely in the first place, because they’re vaccinated).

I have done "collective responsibility" since 17th March 2020, and you can now take "collective responsibility" and shove it where the sun doesn't shine

@Brainfogisreal

Well I've worked in a room with numerous people and no social distancing throughout the entire pandemic so it wouldn't bother me. Funny how it's safe to be in the same room as colleagues but not friends

I know. The illogic of the rules really doesn't help.

I know so many people breaking the rules, and I start to think, 'What's the point following them?' Then I read an article like the one in the Guardian about the man who died because he spent Christmas indoors with relatives and get tearful and scared. I have no bloody idea what's safe or not to I stick to the rules.

I’d go as well, I’ve been vaccinated and never go anywhere otherwise. The reason I had it was to start being able to live a normal life again.

I would but I wouldn’t judge anyone who didn’t feel comfortable

The rules are a blunt instrument

Take into account local rates (miniscule here) and if people have had it/been vaccinated

Use common sense people.

@Brainfogisreal

Well I've worked in a room with numerous people and no social distancing throughout the entire pandemic so it wouldn't bother me. Funny how it's safe to be in the same room as colleagues but not friends

Yep. If it’s perfectly acceptable for me to stand at the front of a classroom with 5 different classes of 30 teenagers every day, it’s fine for me to be in a room with a friend I don’t live with. I’m sick of being expected to live to work and nothing else.

Mumsnet is the only place where people are obeying the rules. Literally no one I know in real life seems to be doing it.

That's not a good thing though. I'm obeying the rules but am becoming more and more reluctant to do so.

Christmas was a different situation though. How many cases per day? Something like 50-60,000 it was rife and everywhere. Plus no vaccinations. It would have been very risky to mix then. We saw nobody.

But I’m able to look at local rates and vaccination rates now and make a risk assessment.

People are being ridiculous. The guidance is to cater for the lowest common denominator (i.e. stupid people). We had friends round at the weekend outside (based on 6 from 2). It was bloody freezing by 9pm so we all went inside. We know they don't have Covid, we know we don't have Covid - and we've pretty much stayed apart for a year, so there really isn't a problem. Common sense is all it takes.

I'd go.

I will be seeing friends indoors at some point in the next couple of weeks.

If you really don't feel comfortable it would be perfect R to cancel.

@ThereIsIron

People are being ridiculous. The guidance is to cater for the lowest common denominator (i.e. stupid people). We had friends round at the weekend outside (based on 6 from 2). It was bloody freezing by 9pm so we all went inside. We know they don't have Covid, we know we don't have Covid - and we've pretty much stayed apart for a year, so there really isn't a problem. Common sense is all it takes.

Fair enough, I see your point but how do you know you don't have COVID when 1 in 3 show no symptoms?

@ThereIsIron

People are being ridiculous. The guidance is to cater for the lowest common denominator (i.e. stupid people). We had friends round at the weekend outside (based on 6 from 2). It was bloody freezing by 9pm so we all went inside. We know they don't have Covid, we know we don't have Covid - and we've pretty much stayed apart for a year, so there really isn't a problem. Common sense is all it takes.

Agree so much with this.

People have lost their ability to rationally assess their own specific risk.

Are people on here really waiting for Bojo to say to you "and now you can hug your granny" before you do so? Do you really think he's ever actually going to say that?!!

The guidance is to cater for the lowest common denominator (i.e. stupid people).

Stupid people as in those who don’t believe in asymptomatic covid? How were you certain none of you had it?

Look at the rates for your area and the surrounding areas. Some areas are almost totally clean and others have still quite a lot of cases.

@sqirrelfriends

Mumsnet is the only place where people are obeying the rules. Literally no one I know in real life seems to be doing it.

That's not a good thing though. I'm obeying the rules but am becoming more and more reluctant to do so.

The majority of Mumsnet are now breaking the rules. A clear shift in direction over the past few months.

I'd go, but then, I'm done with this bollocks.

I wouldn’t go. I’d be amazed if any of my friends suggested it whilst it’s against guidelines. (If they did, I’d probably internally judge them for a moment but then move on). But I am a rule follower, naive as that may be. I thought the bit someone said about the example you are setting to children is certainly something I agree with. Demonstrating that it’s ok to pick and chose what rules apply to you is an interesting concept for a child to comprehend/implement themselves.