Wales - second home

[nathanandfanny]

I am completely confused. When can we travel to wales and stay there. I’m in England. The announcement today all related to travel and staying in England and international travel in May. There doesn’t seem to be anything about the UK. I have combed the internet and I keep reading contradictory announcements. Wales online and bbc both have days old articles saying travel from England permitted in Wales from 12 but does that include overnight stay. I have a second home in wales and normally stay there a week out of every four - for the last 25 years. Can anyone help me make sense of this!

We have a second home, get on very well with neighbours, have had socially distanced drinks outside with them, they don’t mind that we have come a week early, equally I don’t mind seeing friends going in and out their house (which isn’t allowed here) or them drilling until 10pm to get their renovations done.

Live and let live I say.

I am in two minds about the second homes thing- whereas yes it is awful that locals are priced out of their areas, most second home owners do rent theirs out a lot of the time - and the Welsh tourist industry will do pretty well out of the guests. I’m pretty sure they create a lot of jobs, especially for younger people.
But it is very sad how for example a certain very beautiful part of west Wales has become Cheshire-on-sea with accompanying prices. I’m not sure what the locals make of it but they’re definitely not delighted.

@Frazzled2207 That's a bit of a myth though.
While tourism does bring in an income, the jobs it creates are generally low paid gig economy type roles.

What Wales needs is higher-paid, skilled industry but our government have failed to attract enough of that and instead the nation is turning into a playground for English people who then bugger off and leave ghost villages in the winter months.

Also, there is genuine concern about small rural hospitals and the effect on elderly communities if Covid rates rise again;
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/spike-coronavirus-cases-neighbouring-welsh-20342617

@Poppiesandfreesias
Agree entirely that the government should have been thinking more about attracting industry.
And putting off rich English second homers. Is not just a Wales issue though, very similar situation in South West England

[quote Nootkah]@SunshiningBetty

Careful with this. We live in a beautiful part of Wales with some second homes and know two English families who came for Easter, were reported by locals, visited by police same day, fined and sent straight home.[/quote]
If they paid the fines, why did they also go home? Either/or, surely?

And of course only "English" families have second homes. It couldn't possibly be the case that someone in Cardiff has a countryside home in North Wales or Pembrokeshire. Or indeed someone from Wales lives in England, but also has a second home in Wales. As for the impact on the Welsh language, you do know there are people who speak Welsh who have a main home outside Wales!

The idea that free movement within the UK has been stopped during this pandemic is ludicrous, and yet people have just accepted it because only pesky English people transmit covid across borders.

Pity the Welsh police don't have anything better to do than pay attention to coronastasi reporting nasty second home owners. I have concerns about the ethics of second home ownership but reporting people for visiting them is so pathetic.

there is genuine concern about small rural hospitals and the effect on elderly communities if Covid rates rise again

Of course there is, because nobody has been vaccinated in Wales

And talking of the south west of England, where my mother is, 93% of over 50s have been vaccinated.

@Frazzled2207 Agreed, it's an issue in many rural areas, but there's the extra threat to the language in Wales.

The locals I know who have jobs around holiday rentals are all part time cleaners on minimum wage. Second home owners and village houses used as airbnbs bring nothing to our community, the people staying use some of the small shops, but that is hugely outweighed by how many lives they damage.
We have a massive influx of people moving here now to set up holiday rentals. They see this area as a pretty location, and don’t give any thought to how their arrival destroys it further.
Even surrounding farming is affected. As old farmers die the farmhouses are being sold off with a few acres, and the bulk of the land separately. Incomers want big old farm houses with some land but not to farm 100 acres, and so the farms fetch a higher price broken up. The land then goes to whichever other farm can afford it, and we are left with a few huge farms, rather than the diversity of land management that we had before. Huge farms manage the land in a different way, often less environmentally consciously.
I can see my Great great Grandfather’s childhood home from my window. Now a holiday let that was reported last year for having people there during lockdown. I have been working out my family tree, and almost every home lived in by my family in this county is now a holiday let. It is really upsetting living in this area as a Welsh person, I am in a minority now in my own place.
Friends went to look at a house a couple of weeks ago and the estate agent actually cried. She said it wasn’t just some houses selling to people from outside the area, it was every single house.
It is about time Welsh Gov stopped telling is how great tourism is for Wales and instead looked at how much damage it does. Wales is becoming a bloody Theme Park.

It is also the case that second homes operated as businesses don’t pay council tax, so could be seen as a negative contribution to the local area. I heard that in he first lockdown owners could also claim the £10k help given, but I’m not 100% about that.

Second homes being a positive thing for tourism is a bit of a myth as mentioned upthread. Tourism in the form of hotels/B&Bs/campsites contribute more in terms of employment while second homes are obviously self catering, so many guests do a shop in a big name supermarket and eat out a few times a week. Our company has more than 30 properties in our books, one receptionist and 5 cleaners. Not that many jobs generated!

@poppycat10

Of course its different. The stay local rule ended in Wales on 27th March. The stay local rule ends in England on 12th April. And the fine iant paid on the spot is it? And fines arent a charge to allownpeople to carry on doing wrong? I presume they were fined because they admitted knowingly travelling to stay in their second home rather than making a mistake and not realising they were in Wales?

And yes of course this apolies to Welsh people too! We cant go to our second home in Devon until 12th April, when the stay local rule in England is relaxes.

@SunshiningBetty
@OverTheRainbow88

How do you explain to your children why it is OK for you but not for others to travel beyond the local area before the government says its safe?

@Nootkah

They are 2 and 4 so they have no idea and just accept any plans, not even that sure they know that covid exists if I’m being honest!

@Nootkah

Also, it’s not going to suddenly be ‘safe’ on the 12th! We are outside, spending money in local cafes/restaurants. No harm done.

[quote Nootkah]@SunshiningBetty
@OverTheRainbow88

How do you explain to your children why it is OK for you but not for others to travel beyond the local area before the government says its safe?[/quote]
They are 6 and 8 so have no clue about the detail of the rule relaxing. And to be honest, they have seen so many people break the rules and are forced to go to school with no mitigations against current scientific advice so we are beyond caring.

We’ve had a nice day cycling and on the beach although the dog did a poo and we had forgotten the poo bags so we dug a hole and buried it. Another thing for the anti English/anti second homes moaners to tie themselves up in knots about

Plus we have been shielding for a year and are both fully vaccinated so we have more chance of catching Covid from some pesky locals than them from us. We shall be staying right away from them.

@SirVixofVixHall I agree with you. I think we live in the same county but opposite ends. Our housing market is a shit show at the moment . Zero rentals available and a huge increase in second homes being bought.

Is not just a Wales issue though, very similar situation in South West England

It's a similar situation anywhere remotely 'pretty'. The number of second homes in the village I live in is growing. They are easy to spot because they put out their bins out when they leave and they stay out until they return, sometimes weeks later. Or, more usually, until a local gets fed up looking at them and puts them away first. I have been tempted just to remove them permanently. /rant

They only put out their bins once. Sorry, it's Friday.

@Etulosba

Is not just a Wales issue though, very similar situation in South West England

It's a similar situation anywhere remotely 'pretty'. The number of second homes in the village I live in is growing. They are easy to spot because they put out their bins out when they leave and they stay out until they return, sometimes weeks later. Or, more usually, until a local gets fed up looking at them and puts them away first. I have been tempted just to remove them permanently. /rant

We have solved that problem by taking ours to the tip the day before and then secretly dropping our last bin bag in the bin of an unsuspecting local maybe suggest that to them.

@poppycat10.

Nail on the head.

Department of Health figures show 60.7 per cent of adults have now had a first dose of a vaccine in England, compared to 60.2 per cent in Wales.

Very similar then really

Fucking hell @SunshiningBetty you're enjoying this aren't you? Does it make you feel big and clever?

@Poppiesandfreesias

Fucking hell *@SunshiningBetty* you're enjoying this aren't you? Does it make you feel big and clever?

Quite. My family is originally from Wales and I never could understand the anti English sentiment when I was a child. I do now, although I appreciate it’s the minority.

I know someone who got at least £10,000 in government grants over lockdowns for their second home as it was classed as a business...

[quote ExplodingCarrots]@SirVixofVixHall I agree with you. I think we live in the same county but opposite ends. Our housing market is a shit show at the moment . Zero rentals available and a huge increase in second homes being bought. [/quote]
Yes maybe we do Carrots, will pm you.